Also 450 dps seems low, even for a lvl 110 melee warlock.
Since when can warlocks even swing axes? I havenât played retail since CataclysmâŚ
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I donât see how using a melee hunter is better than having an OT hamstring spam. If you have T2 gear you can spam hamstring every GCD, you will have a 30% flurry haste, and you can BT/WW/HS/cleave when your rage is high for even more damage.
Orc enhancement shaman are probably the only class setup where using this axe is possibly worth doing.
Warriors, hunters, and rets all lose more dps from trying to use this than the debuff brings to the raid on average.
Maybe even shaman once dark edge of insanity is an option.
Mostly because the offtank warrior can do so much more dps than this axe provides by doing a dual wield fury rotation than trying to spam string.
Hunters have a much lower damage ceiling that they give up, and you tend to be bringing them for a few tranq shot fights and true shot aura more than anything elseâŚ
But even hunters get way more dps by shooting a bow than nightfall provides the raid.
⌠itâs a pretty terrible axe.
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I mean I suppose that changes depending on raid composition?
Like if you have the typical min/max 20 warriors/rogues and a few casters it may not be worth it. But if you have a caster-heavy raid (especially after AQ/naxx for fire mages), I canât imagine its not worth it for at least one OT to use it.
Itâs not. Proc rates are terrible without a spammable attack.
For now. Later on maybe not so much.
It would need to literally be all casters.
Spamming hamstring/clip gets an average uptime in raids around 30%.
Thatâs a 4.5% boost to the casters overall damage.
The damage output of a spam clip or spam string warrior (especially alliance side) is INCREDIBLY bad, maybe 200 dps (horde warriors have a bit of an advantage there due to axe skill on orcs and windfury totem, but thatâs not going to change how bad their dps is relative to their top end). So even hunters are losing 400-500 dps to be a nightfall user.
This also requires holding a debuff slot open for nightfall, which is worth 40-50 dps if given to a DoT like corruption or consecration instead of nightfall.
To recover 450 dps from the procâs average uptime, youâd need to have 10 casters doing 1000 baseline DPS (which is far higher than your average caster). Or 20 doing an average of 500 baseline dps (more reasonable).
Odds are REALLY good your raid composition is never going to be favorable to using nightfall on a warrior/hunter.
The dps loss is far less on a ret paladin or enhance shaman, but the uptime still isnt good enough except in extreme caster comps to be worth using due to not having a spammable attack.
Nightfall is only useful to help your casters get 100% log parses. It doesnât help you kill the boss more quickly for most wielders or group compositions.
Wouldnât this just be an argument for never using a ret also? You could just replace the nightfall and ret with a fury warrior and make up the damage.
Seems like it might still be worth it in naxx to pump the mages/warlocks (some already do 1000+ dps with world buffs), but maybe not a big deal now.
Itâs actually an interesting argument, Iâve wondered whether its worth losing having another dps. Thatâs why I think OT is the only real option, because youâre not giving up a pure dps for it (when warriors can be doing 1000-1500 dps with world buffs). But if you have good healers you donât need a dedicated off-tank, just have the fury dps wars do it as necessary.
Nightfall isnt worth using anyway.
Not like bosses last long enough for the proc rate to be useful.
Its also using TBC proc rate values, which has a lower chance to proc on a lvl63 mob, which is the levels of all bosses.
In reality though you basically are, since most OTs are fury prot and deal pretty much full regular dps.
You can still use rets and such, Nightfall just isnât worth it.
Itâs not doing that, but it may have some issues with proccing on a target with full debuffs. Blizzard testing confirmed the proc rate is fine on it, and out of raid testing on high level world mobs didnât find suppressed proc rates. The one thing Blizzâs blue post didnât address was a true raid environment with every debuff slot full, where nightfall seems to sometimes struggle to trigger at all.
Is it a lower priority debuff like deep wounds where it wonât push off certain other debuffs (e.g. curse of shadows)?
We ran it 2 seperate times, and its just not worth it.
The hunter will be doing like 400+ dps anyway, so its not worth it for him to sit there and wing clip.
The ret is the best choice for it, but again after testing it with a ret he only averaged like a 17% uptime. Thats on the good side of it too, some fights were like 8%.
Wasnt worth it.
Yeah⌠I imagine itâs fine on a dwarf ret paladin, where the best pve weapon they are trying to overcome is an OEB, and the debuff can outpace that dps deficit.
Iâm not sure about that. Once on it seems like a medium priority debuff, but it may be set as a low priority for the initial application.
i know this is super late nowâŚas classics over (if youre not cloning). but since i posted here before: I swung nightfall through naxx. i averaged about 42% uptime as a wing clip hunt, as high as 55% on patch/grob. and my personal dps as a 31/0/20 build was 500-600 dps world buffed. (if i REALLY went ham on consumes, could push 650-680.) we had 5 warlocks and 7 mages all pushing 1k dps or higher. So i LOST about 200-300 personal dps, and GAINED about 800 average raid wide dps with nightfall. It was a massive gain. period. Lots of people talk. not many people do. I did it, and it worked great. On a side note, i also did melee spellpower builds (even have a couple youtube videos posted (michael clark) channel.) used dual hakkari manslayers, and sometimes shadowstrike. mostly dual wielding the manslayers tho. used regular tier gear, but used elixir of shadow power/greater arcane elixir consumes. used shadow oil on off hand (scales 56% with spellpower), and windfury main hand. dragon breath chili as well (scales 100% with spell power). used HoJ and darkmoon card maelstrom. achieved about 500-600 dps. nothin crazyâŚbut a worthy meme
This was solved a while ago, paladins have best uptime cause of seals proccing it.
We had a guy twisting last week and he was able to keep nightfall up almost constantly on his own.