Nightfall debuff is way lower than 2PPM stated across the board from classic wowhead

Warkrak-herod · April 12, 2020, 3:50am

29 days after my last post and still no blue lol

Theloras-herod · April 12, 2020, 3:51am

anywho, I wanted to post this for just how lol Nightfall is on Classic:

VexrToday at 3:43 PM
By far the most random NF raid for me was this MC: https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8W1QrKfwR6dYpXqM
I’m pretty sure my guild is keen on me sticking with NF no matter what, so nice to see it can knock the ball outta the park now and then (and try to ignore the whiffs)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/648260038372229134/698664445043539978/Discord_qirdV24dB1.png

Teece-skeram · April 17, 2020, 1:19pm

I’ve thrown the 2 NF axes I made for the guild in the bank and just went holy until AQ when our damage and mage damage is scaling better. Its a real shame we’ve had no reply on this at all, it seems like it would be an easy fix to make.

Zeliek-moon-guard · April 18, 2020, 2:25pm

Are there other procs that would fizzle in TBC? If so we could try to build a list of items that are showing the same signs as Nightfall.

Delmok-mankrik · April 21, 2020, 6:35pm

I’m hearing bad things about Annihilator too. Fortunately its a much faster weapon and the proc lasts 45 seconds, but forget about trying to stack it and doing good personal dps.

Theloras-herod · April 21, 2020, 6:36pm

from what i know, it was never nerfed during TBC (could be wrong however) - it’s just that the proc rate is abysmally low on Classic at 1PPM compared to being 6PPM on private servers

Delmok-mankrik · April 21, 2020, 7:31pm

You are wrong. It was nerfed in patch 2.4.2. Patch notes explicitly state Nightfall has a chance to fail on targets over level 60. Reason being guilds were using this on Brutallus. So it was still good, far better than the version we have.

Theloras-herod · April 21, 2020, 7:31pm

i was referring to annihilator as you mentioned in your earlier post - sorry for the confusion

Delmok-mankrik · April 21, 2020, 7:33pm

Ah gotcha. Apologies.

Amanirenas-pagle · April 21, 2020, 10:11pm

Hey Theloras, that spreadsheet in the link at the end of your post that calculates the real raid DPS increase due to Nightfall proc - is that something you can feed a log to and it calculates it automatically? Or do you have to mine the log manually for the data to plug into the spreadsheet?

Either way… could I have it?

Theloras-herod · April 21, 2020, 10:13pm

sure

Yunojelly02/21/2020
@Theloras Sorry to tag you this early but… tag revenge is sweet huehuehue.
a guildmember of mine figured out how to filter warcraft logs for Nightfall debuff and showing the combined total spell damage dealt during the Nightfall window.

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RkGTCtAm3fB9XHcd#pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24expression%24ability.Type%20!%3D%20%221%22%20%20AND%20IN%20RANGE%20FROM%20type%20%3D%20%22applydebuff%22%20AND%20ability.name%20%3D%20%22Spell%20Vulnerability%22%20TO%20type%20%3D%20%22removedebuff%22%20AND%20ability.name%20%3D%20%22Spell%20Vulnerability%22%20%20END&type=damage-done&fight=1

Since people don’t seem to believe us when we tell them NF is currently not really worth it, I mathed it out:

Assuming the logs shows the damage dealt TO the target WHILST the target has the Nightfall debuff and not just spell damage dished out to all targets during the nightfall window, which would make multimob boss fights largely inaccurate then:
Im showing how i did the math for the first boss, then wont for the remaining to save text space xD
Razorgore combined Nightfall DPS:
32.6 + 30.5 + 26 + 23.2 + 23.2 + 19.6 + 18 + 17.1 + 16.2 + 12.4 + 10.6 + 6.7 + 6 + 2 + 2 + 1.7 + + 1.2 + 1.1 + 1.1 + 0.6 + 0.6 + 0.3 + 0.1 * 0.15 = 37.92 Total Added DPS
(Values below 10dps only added 3-4 total DPS)

Vaelastrasz combined Nightfall DPS: 121.62
Broodlord Lashlayer combined Nightfall DPS: 125.08
Firemaw combined Nightfall DPS: 4.62
Ebenroc combined Nightfall DPS: 82.51
Flamegor combined Nightfall DPS: 68.49
Chromaggus combined Nightfall DPS: 39.39
Nefarian combined Nightfall DPS: 85.11

If we calculate the average overall dps increase from every boss then nightfall adds on average: 70.59 DPS per boss fight.
Mind you this is mathed out with 2 Nightfall wielders.
If there is only 1 person swinging NF, then the uptime will be way less, maybe even half of this simply because on certain fights, Nightfall wont proc at all.
(Yes I did it the hard way, I unintentionally but conveniently overlooked the “total” dps at the very bottom of every boss fight xD)

Penguinbasher02/22/2020
I figured out how to do the spell vulnerability thing with WCL
does that mean that off of this onyxia log

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aRQkrAbXP7CDj63f#fight=last&type=damage-done&pins=2%24Off%24%23909049%24expression%24ability.Type%20!%3D%20%221%22%20AND%20IN%20RANGE%20FROM%20type%20%3D%20%22applydebuff%22%20AND%20ability.name%20%3D%20%22Spell%20Vulnerability%22%20TO%20type%20%3D%20%22removedebuff%22%20AND%20ability.name%20%3D%20%22Spell%20Vulnerability%22%20END

I can add up the dps of my casters for what NF provided them?
or is it you take the active % * dps while active and add it up?

Amanirenas-pagle · April 21, 2020, 10:41pm

Ok so if I’m reading this right, this filters the log to show the magic damage done during all NF debuff durations. Then you just add and find 15% to calculate the NF contribution. Yeah?

Theloras-herod · April 21, 2020, 10:47pm

that is my understanding yes, but I am a nub when it comes to WCL so this was calculated by the other guys not me

Khlause-kurinnaxx · April 22, 2020, 3:45am

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6KyRDdMkQrFq7gpT#boss=-2&difficulty=0&type=damage-done&source=5&targetbuffs=-23605

The pillars of grey are the nightfall proc, you can toggle them on and off with the button at the bottom, its one of the raids you linked above, this shows the details a little nicer if you are interested I dont know enough about the nighfall weapon other than we have an arms warrior whos got one and I dont see a difference in overall damageoutput for the raid.

Theloras-herod · April 22, 2020, 4:12am

face meet palm at the RNG ridiculousness of Nightfall on Classic…

EnwoodToday at 9:02 PM

On rag just now 16 procs 59.55% uptime with me and a warr
I had 8 of the procs and the rest of the bosses in MC I only had 14 total
so much RNG

Khlause-kurinnaxx · April 22, 2020, 5:01am

Yeah seems a little wild, maybe that’s the correct interaction but who knows, it is a completely different game engine

Theloras-herod · April 23, 2020, 6:50pm

YunojellyToday at 5:06 AM

@Theloras Can we have the nightfall wowlogs filter string pinned to this channel? Penguin wrote it abit further up but ill post it here for ease of navigation:

Nightfall wowlogs Filter String, courtecy of Penguinbasher:

ability.Type != “1” AND IN RANGE FROM type = “applydebuff” AND ability.name = “Spell Vulnerability” TO type = “removedebuff” AND ability.name = “Spell Vulnerability” END

Theloras-llane · April 24, 2020, 4:32am

FYI - yet another Vanilla era item that was nerfed to the ground during TBC and made to fizzle against targets above level 60:

Gnomish Mind Control Cap
Item Level 47
Binds when equipped
Head Cloth
10 Armor
+14 Spirit
Durability 70 / 70
Use: Engage in mental combat with a humanoid target to try and control their mind. If all works well, you will control the mind of the target for 30 sec …
Increased chance of failure when used against targets over level 60.
(30 Min Cooldown)
Requires Engineering (215)
https://web.archive.org/web/20160228013813/http://www.wowhead.com/item=10726/gnomish-mind-control-cap

Aggrend-1483 · April 24, 2020, 11:32pm

Greetings!

We’ve spent a significant amount of time digging into the claims in this thread and at this time we can conclude that Nightfall is in fact behaving as expected.

To respond to specific claims or theories in this thread, here’s a very quick outline of what we found:

Nightfall can and does proc from glancing blows.
Nightfall can and does proc from white hits or yellow hits.
Nightfall is refreshed if the same player procs it twice within the 5-sec duration, but it is removed & re-applied if it is procced by a second player during the first player’s Nightfall effect.
Nightfall can be applied from front & behind.
If there are two players with Nightfall, it has approximately double the uptime as when only one is present. (A little less than, simply due to it being more frequent for player B to overwrite player A when both are attacking, than player A overwriting themselves when they are attacking alone.)
The Nightfall proc effect is considered physical and cannot be resisted. No resists are even being attempted in the combat rolls.
Over dozens of 5-minute “target dummy” tests against level 63 Boss mobs, we found that the effect had a roughly 8-13% total proc rate, which is well within expectations for a 3.5 speed weapon with a PPM of 2 (~11.6% raw proc-per-hit).
Even in our higher percentage data sets (where we observed proc rates of 13% or more over 5 minutes) we at times went as much as a full minute between procs.

It’s important to understand there is no “bad luck protection” or other normalization for procs in Original WoW or WoW Classic. Its quite possible (and common) to go extended periods of time with no procs, or to have multiple back-to-back procs. You are especially susceptible to not seeing consistent procs when bosses die very quickly, or if there is a lot of movement or other mechanics that prevent constant uptime on bosses (The Chromaggus run-in, run-out “dance” is a good example of this).

I’m going to go ahead and close this thread now as well, since we’ve determined that this item is working as expected. We very much appreciate the observations and analysis that everyone has provided for this.

Thank you!