Nightfall debuff is way lower than 2PPM stated across the board from classic wowhead

WoW Classic WoW Classic Bug Report
#31

Devastation - ClovissYesterday at 9:27 PM

@GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx) were there more people with NF?

GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx)Yesterday at 9:36 PM

I was the only NF user
Luciron: 0% uptime
Mag: 0% uptime
Ghennas: 0% Uptime
Garr: 0% Uptime
Baron: 4.1% uptime (1 proc)
Shazz: 8.38% uptime (2 procs)
Sulfuron: 7.46% uptime (1 proc)
Golemagg: 19.08% Uptime (3 procs)
Majordomo: 3.4% uptime (2 procs)
Rag: 9.69% uptime (2 procs)

Crea - AtieshYesterday at 10:21 PM

this is a very rudimentary analysis, but in effect, it’s looking at Nightfall proc chance when the bosses have Deep Wound up, which is an indicator that there are not 16 other high priority debuffs on the target. Sample size is still small, but after 13 logs, only one saw a reduction in proc chance (and that’s in MC where some bosses are deep wound immune and can skew the data significantly), and overall proc chance increases. This would seem to support the idea that it’s being blocked from proccing on bosses with a full set of debuffs.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/648260038372229134/684284272739090432/unknown.png

It helps to explain why some people would see consistently low proc chances, as the common factor across their parses would be their raid and how they handle debuffs. The hypothesis being if your guild manages debuffs closely you’ll see higher proc %. Currently seems plausible. Will continue looking at this.

#32

i agree pls fix!!!

#33

Why acknowledge and fix bugs when you can just gaslight your community and pretend the game is flawless?

2 Likes
#34

I can confirm that Judgement of Command can proc Nightfall. The issue with Pally uptime seems to be that Seal of Righteousness is not proccing item effects like it should. The patch-notes support this. And I am not sure how it is interacting with Seal of the Crusader attack speed either, whether or not the buff being up on hit or at all during a swing-timer effects the proc chance.

#35

No, that’s not it

SoR procs weapons just fine and as expected.

Across the board, with paladins, hunters, and warriors, nightfall’s proc rate seems to drop from about 11% outside of raids to about 8% inside them.

#36

face meet palm…i think I know why the proc rate is so abysmal against raid bosses…

THEY’RE USING THE TBC VERSION OF NIGHTFALL WHICH HAS MUCH LOWER PROC RATE FOR EACH LEVEL ABOVE 60!!!

TLDR - Nightfall’s proc rate was nerfed to the ground during TBC cuz Ret Paladins and Prot Warriors were using them on Brutallus to help nuke him down:

[Nightfall] now has a chance to fail on targets over level 60.
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_2.4.2

By Klarno (2,946 – 1·5·20) on 2008/05/01 (Patch 2.4.1)
A test on the PTR has shown that this weapon has <0.1% proc rate at lvl 70.

By Blightstar (4,647 – 1·7·21) on 2008/04/23 (Patch 2.4.1)
Patch 2.4.2: Nightfall now has a chance to fail for targets above level 60.
No idea how big the chance is but i think it will nerf the use of this weapon completely. Sad thing really …

By skron (1,343 – 3·14) on 2008/04/07 (Patch 2.4.1)
*This may have renewed life on Brutallus… *

Whichever protection warrior is not currently tanking can equip this and whack away, increasing your caster dps on the fight where it’s needed most. Swap as needed.

Haven’t tried this out in a raid setting yet, but should in the coming week.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160224122420/http://www.wowhead.com/item=19169/nightfall#comments

Elitist Jerks thread about Nightfall during TBC and the nerf to it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080430023845/http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17089-paladin_protection_you/p55/

8 Likes
Diamond Flask's HP5 snapshots
#37

I got curious and looked at two of our logs from last Friday’s MC, where one of our Tanks was using Nightfall on some fights. We have 2PPM, or higher, on two of our fights. I haven’t checked the rest (he wasn’t always using the Axe). We’re Alliance, so no Windfury Totem here.

Garr 1 mins, 31 secs with 3 Procs (~2 PPM) https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ymrG2qPaZ7zk34Nd#fight=35&type=auras&spells=debuffs&hostility=1&ability=23605
Ragnaros 2 mins, 17 secs with 6 Procs (~2.63 PPM) https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ymrG2qPaZ7zk34Nd#fight=last&type=auras&spells=debuffs&hostility=1&ability=23605

1 Like
#38

for comparison - here’s TBC and onwards version of Crusader enchant
https://web.archive.org/web/20160302213050/http://www.wowhead.com/item=16252/formula-enchant-weapon-crusader#comments

Teaches you how to permanently enchant a melee weapon to often heal for 75 to 125 and increase Strength by 100 for 15 sec. when attacking in melee. Has a reduced effect for players above level 60. Cannot be applied to items higher than level 600.

2 Likes
#39

The “easiest” way to confirm if items are in fact using TBC values is to use Tidal Charm on level 61+ targets and document the resistances versus level 60 targets. You will need hundreds of hits though to verify any data.

Or maybe there is a different item that could be used to test the TBC theory.

2 Likes
#40

WTB raid boss target dummies in Classic

Have Mats

Will Tip!

2 Likes
#41

There are plenty of lv 61 and 62 normal mobs you can test on.

1 Like
#42

level 63 is where they jump off of a cliff however…

ie: raid bosses

1 Like
#43

I don’t understand.

#44

just put in target dummies so we can test this stuff along with everything else simply and efficiently

#45

I think what’s he’s saying is Raid Bosses (effective level 63) would have a higher resist.

I also did double check that raid night I linked the two fights from, and the Tank had only used Nightfall on two fights that night.

I demand a refund on the Nightfall I crafted
I demand a refund on the Nightfall I crafted
#46

Nightfall hunter here,

After looking back through my logs of MC, BWL, and Ony, the proc is not a proc per minute , most of my fights have averaged out to 3 procs a min, but at the same time I have seen higher and I even had 1 fight where I proced 9 times in 1 min.

I did some open world testing on a very small scale, against lvl 54/55 mobs and found that just doing auto attacks had a very very low chance to proc the weapon, but spamming wingclip (as I do in raid) I was able to get 3 or 4 procs off on a single target in 30 seconds, which is clearly higher than the procs in raid (even against no movement fights).

Auto Attack only averaged out to 2-3 procs per min
Wing Clip spam averaged out to 6-8 (12 at the highest) per min
Raid bosses (wing clip spam) have averaged out to about 3 procs per min (highest was 9)

What this is saying is that raid bosses have a clear lower proc rate, and that the proc rate is not a flat proc per min, it is a chance on hit (would have to avg out the numbers).

#47

correct PPM averages out according to your swing speed - aka Seal of Command is set at 7PPM which is then run through your base swing speed which gives you a chance on hit proc %

#48

Sometime in 3.X-4.X blizzard introduced a system to manage PPM effects, I forget off hand what it was called, but it was a method to smooth out Low PPM effects. One of the side effects of this new system, was that Low PPM effects would proc on the first 1-3 hits with over 80% probability by the 3rd hit.

I did much research on this back in the day with others, and this would probably align with this miss-mashed system. IIRC the system was based around Time-Since-Last-Proc.

I might be able to find some old pictures I had of the proc curves and such, but they might also be available on EJ somewhere in my posts.

#49

I assumed ‘less effective above level 60’ referenced the person wielding the weapon, not necessarily the target.

#50

for crusader enchant that is correct, but they essentially work in the exact same manner by limiting the proc chance for each level above 60 for the player in the case of crusader enchant and the target in the case of nightfall