Nightfall debuff is way lower than 2PPM stated across the board from classic wowhead

you are a gentleman and a scholar

FYI

HolyfrogToday at 6:39 PM

Another update on Nightfall. Wanted to see if Nightfall can in fact proc on Glancing blows in case the ProcScience addon already filtered out the glancing for some reason.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/648260038372229134/679155066833338386/unknown.png

Can see in the combat log that both the two last hits glanced, and the proc is on full duration. So it can indeed proc on glancing blows
That leaves spellhit to be tested
Im trying to think of anything else that might have caused the 1ppm data earlier but Im really lost for ideas. Even if the proc for some weird reason was subject to spellhit it should not have its procrate lowered by 50%

Little sidenote about the findings - i didnt account for the hunters auto attacks. So with 112 possible attacks that landed and dealt damage including blocked and glancing (wc+autoattack+raptor strike) 13 of those had a proc. 8.61% proc rate (112/13)

If it was listed in vanilla with a 2ppm

(60 (seconds) /3.5 (base weapon speed) ) = 17.14 (swings in a min)
2/17.14 = .1166 or 11.66%

Is my math correct that its actually correct or very close to being correct if the proc is based on the swing and not landed?

EDIT - didnt take into account all misses/dodges - of 133 casts 112 landed. Updated math.

I know how to post links, it justs says I don’t have permission to do that when I try to…

Yes, nightfall isnt broken. It’s just the fact you aren’t accounting all the factors when doing the math. You have to remember that without every single piece of relevant information your answer will be skewed. All the logs posted are in line with the proc rate when you take into account all the data.

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Parsing the log we receive ~43seconds of Spell Vulnerability and during that duration 162,002 damage was caused via spells resulting in a 3726.137dps value. From the CVS log:

You should have 162002 * 0.15 / (1 + 0.15) = 21131 damage attributable to Nightfal during that time window. This would translate into 21131 / 43 = 491 dps for the time window alone.

If we assume a 25% uptime and caster dps being invariant over the duration of the raid, this would mean a net benefit of 491 * 0.25 = 123 additional dps over the entirety of the raid.

I’m not sure where the “3726.137” number is coming from.

That being said, your conclusions seem roughly in-line with the expected results even if I don’t understand how you got there.

Ian on the Paladin theory crafting discord is compiling logs with NF uptime for comparison:

IanToday at 7:48 AM

Based on the data we have available, you should assume an ~8% proc chance in raids right now. We don’t know where the missing 3% is going compared to open world tests in Blasted Lands (~11%) Keep PMing or linking logs here so we can keep compiling data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1goLCIcfi7DXxzs8iGC3eSjhPkHQ7PrHmCHmCgMdwxS0/edit?usp=sharing

le sigh…

fusionpitToday at 2:12 PM

windfury proccing nightfall

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/648260038372229134/679812474454671416/unknown.png

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any update on this?

Maybe there is a hidden ‘proc suppression’ going on similiar to crit supression /sarcasm

Sadly - no.

I think we’re just finding that all the weapons we thought would be good with procs just aren’t. Annihilator, Nightfall, Untamed Blade, etc. All pretty bad with current proc rates.

GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx)Today at 8:44 AM

I just had a MC last night with the worst uptime I’ve ever had. 6.66%

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nFyLx9YgpqmVKMHh#boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2&hostility=1&type=auras&spells=debuffs

Multiple bosses with 0 procs.

SmeetToday at 9:27 AM

Yeah… its randomly very bad

GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx)Today at 9:45 AM

Its so bad a mage told me to stop using it.

Crea - AtieshToday at 4:26 PM

@GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx) and you used nightfall on every boss? this would be a massive new low proc %

GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx)Today at 4:35 PM

Yep
every single one
Didnt die either on anyone
And I have scrolls

Crea - AtieshToday at 4:48 PM

You actually own the bottom 2 proc %s across the 46 logs we’ve tracked.

GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx)Today at 4:49 PM

BAM! Lucky me

lol at blizz devs not addressing any bug reports

Devastation - ClovissYesterday at 9:27 PM

@GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx) were there more people with NF?

GoatTribal (Azial-Kurinnaxx)Yesterday at 9:36 PM

I was the only NF user
Luciron: 0% uptime
Mag: 0% uptime
Ghennas: 0% Uptime
Garr: 0% Uptime
Baron: 4.1% uptime (1 proc)
Shazz: 8.38% uptime (2 procs)
Sulfuron: 7.46% uptime (1 proc)
Golemagg: 19.08% Uptime (3 procs)
Majordomo: 3.4% uptime (2 procs)
Rag: 9.69% uptime (2 procs)

Crea - AtieshYesterday at 10:21 PM

this is a very rudimentary analysis, but in effect, it’s looking at Nightfall proc chance when the bosses have Deep Wound up, which is an indicator that there are not 16 other high priority debuffs on the target. Sample size is still small, but after 13 logs, only one saw a reduction in proc chance (and that’s in MC where some bosses are deep wound immune and can skew the data significantly), and overall proc chance increases. This would seem to support the idea that it’s being blocked from proccing on bosses with a full set of debuffs.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/648260038372229134/684284272739090432/unknown.png

It helps to explain why some people would see consistently low proc chances, as the common factor across their parses would be their raid and how they handle debuffs. The hypothesis being if your guild manages debuffs closely you’ll see higher proc %. Currently seems plausible. Will continue looking at this.

i agree pls fix!!!

Why acknowledge and fix bugs when you can just gaslight your community and pretend the game is flawless?

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I can confirm that Judgement of Command can proc Nightfall. The issue with Pally uptime seems to be that Seal of Righteousness is not proccing item effects like it should. The patch-notes support this. And I am not sure how it is interacting with Seal of the Crusader attack speed either, whether or not the buff being up on hit or at all during a swing-timer effects the proc chance.

No, that’s not it

SoR procs weapons just fine and as expected.

Across the board, with paladins, hunters, and warriors, nightfall’s proc rate seems to drop from about 11% outside of raids to about 8% inside them.

face meet palm…i think I know why the proc rate is so abysmal against raid bosses…

THEY’RE USING THE TBC VERSION OF NIGHTFALL WHICH HAS MUCH LOWER PROC RATE FOR EACH LEVEL ABOVE 60!!!

TLDR - Nightfall’s proc rate was nerfed to the ground during TBC cuz Ret Paladins and Prot Warriors were using them on Brutallus to help nuke him down:

[Nightfall] now has a chance to fail on targets over level 60.
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_2.4.2

By Klarno (2,946 – 1·5·20) on 2008/05/01 (Patch 2.4.1)
A test on the PTR has shown that this weapon has <0.1% proc rate at lvl 70.

By Blightstar (4,647 – 1·7·21) on 2008/04/23 (Patch 2.4.1)
Patch 2.4.2: Nightfall now has a chance to fail for targets above level 60.
No idea how big the chance is but i think it will nerf the use of this weapon completely. Sad thing really …

By skron (1,343 – 3·14) on 2008/04/07 (Patch 2.4.1)
*This may have renewed life on Brutallus… *

Whichever protection warrior is not currently tanking can equip this and whack away, increasing your caster dps on the fight where it’s needed most. Swap as needed.

Haven’t tried this out in a raid setting yet, but should in the coming week.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160224122420/http://www.wowhead.com/item=19169/nightfall#comments

Elitist Jerks thread about Nightfall during TBC and the nerf to it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080430023845/http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17089-paladin_protection_you/p55/

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I got curious and looked at two of our logs from last Friday’s MC, where one of our Tanks was using Nightfall on some fights. We have 2PPM, or higher, on two of our fights. I haven’t checked the rest (he wasn’t always using the Axe). We’re Alliance, so no Windfury Totem here.

Garr 1 mins, 31 secs with 3 Procs (~2 PPM) https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ymrG2qPaZ7zk34Nd#fight=35&type=auras&spells=debuffs&hostility=1&ability=23605
Ragnaros 2 mins, 17 secs with 6 Procs (~2.63 PPM) https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ymrG2qPaZ7zk34Nd#fight=last&type=auras&spells=debuffs&hostility=1&ability=23605

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for comparison - here’s TBC and onwards version of Crusader enchant
https://web.archive.org/web/20160302213050/http://www.wowhead.com/item=16252/formula-enchant-weapon-crusader#comments

Teaches you how to permanently enchant a melee weapon to often heal for 75 to 125 and increase Strength by 100 for 15 sec. when attacking in melee. Has a reduced effect for players above level 60. Cannot be applied to items higher than level 600.

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The “easiest” way to confirm if items are in fact using TBC values is to use Tidal Charm on level 61+ targets and document the resistances versus level 60 targets. You will need hundreds of hits though to verify any data.

Or maybe there is a different item that could be used to test the TBC theory.

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