Night Elves need a more realistic response for grief

Yet another Night Elf thread, but this is something that I’ve been thinking about recently. Now the writing of the War of Thorns and the Burning of Teldrassil is that it was a big genocidal event, where potentially thousands of night elves lost their lives, hundreds were injured, and many are still reeling from the trauma of losing loved ones and their home.

Now with Amirdrassil, they have a new home and are expected to just have their grief be magically healed. When realistically, trauma and even grief are a never ending cycle. Somedays are fine, other days you’re reliving events, other days you’re going through the cycle of grief, starting at anger. Five years isn’t long enough to say that you’re healed.

When I lived in Texas, I worked in a part of Plano that had a large number of Bosnian refugees who fled from their homeland during the Bosnian War in 1993. Many of you weren’t alive then, personally I was three when it happened, and didn’t really know much about it until I worked at a retail store and worked with them. Now at the time it had been 21-22 years since the Bosnian War/Bosnian Genocide.

One day one of the managers and an employee got into a heated argument over the subject of forgiveness. I think for whatever reason someone turned on one of those televangelist programs on the tv. Plano while it’s a multicultural and multi-religious city,(There’s a Bah’ai center, a Buddhist Temple, a mosque, a synagouge and two chabad centers) it’s still a mostly Christian city, and for whatever reason that person decided it was appropriate to put that on in the break room. Anyway the televangelist was talking about forgiveness which lead to the manager making a comment about her experience as a refugee and how she at the time didn’t forgive this general that was committed several atrocities. The employee said that she should forgive him, as it would be better.

I don’t remember exactly what was said but I think it’s was along the lines of “You can’t expect me to forgive someone who has done these crimes to several women. It’s not up to you on whether I need to forgive him or not. He needs to face justice for what he has done.”

I remember watching the argument and seeing how angry the manager was. And she was right. You can’t realistically expect someone who has gone through a traumatic experience and likely saw their loved ones killed or even brutally harmed and expect them to forgive someone. Some can. Others cannot. Some of that trauma can even be experienced by generations. While time may heal all wounds however it’s up to the individual to determine how long the healing process has to be and when the appropriate time to forgive someone. It’s not up to the outsider.

The same thing can be said for the night elves themselves. Five years isn’t going to be a long enough time for them to heal. It would have been better if the Horde didn’t get involved with Amirdrassil and were treated as enemies. Heck, it would have been better if Amirdrassil was planted where Teldrassil was. But even then, a new home isn’t going to heal those wounds. It’s not going to heal their grief or the trauma that they have to live through each and every day.

I know that WoW is a fantasy game, but if we’re going to write about genocides, then we should at least include some realistic parameters for healing. Right now, it’s been 30 years since the Bosnian War/Bosnian Genocide, and the generals who perpetrated the acts are in prison. I still think about that manager, and hope that she’s doing well. I moved to a different state and transferred within the company to a different store. I’m sure she still hasn’t forgiven him. But I hope she’s healing. Because again grief and trauma are cycles that truly never go away.

6 Likes

We don’t really know how much forgiveness the Night Elves have given the Horde. While more than half of the Horde leaders showed up to defend Amirdrassil, Tyrande didn’t talk with any of them, nor did any other Night Elf that we saw.

A Horde player can have worked with Tyrande and the Night Elves lot throughout the game, so there’s some suspension of disbelief imposed there on how Night Elves might view the Horde player in comparison to their feelings towards the Horde at large.

And very awkwardly Blizzard has not touched upon if hostilities have continued or not with the Night Elves’ ongoing attacks to push the Horde out of Splintertree Post and Warsong Lumbercamp as brought up by Exploring Kalimdor.

6 Likes

Well outside of Shandris having a questline with Lilian Voss.

I don’t think what we’re seeing is the night elves forgiving the Horde. Rather, I think what we’re seeing is the night elves… Aren’t racist.

Your story is great because it highlights that working with a group does not mean you forgive an individual, and what we’re seeing is an inversion of that.

The night elves aren’t forgiving the Horde, because all the Horde itself has done to earn forgiveness is not attack again yet.

The night elves are showing a willingness to forgive individual people who happen to belong to the Horde, because those individuals have shown they are willing to work towards earning that forgiveness.

In essence, they are not seeing “blood elf” and laying the blame for all Horde crimes at every Horde racial group’s member’s feet.

Instead they’re seeing “Alynsa” and letting my actions speak for me. While those actions in the past might have been to follow my commander’s orders in battle and be led to the beaches of Darkshore, now those actions are ones seeking atonement; helping Tyrande not die in the Shadowlands and protecting Amirdrassil before it became cool and trendy.

And even then, it’s conditional forgiveness. Walking the 10.2.5 zone, it’s made clear the Horde Player is under heavy suspicion and watch.

11 Likes

My whole point is that it’s way way too soon to even show a willingness to forgive. Like the wounds inflicted on the Kaldorei as a whole are too fresh.

2 Likes

Well yes, that’s true… When your new home isn’t about to be burned down. When you have the time to afford the luxury of being unforgiving, you can absolutely hold true with that.

But when your home is about to be burned down and you call for help, do you really turn away the only person to answer the call because they happen to be a member of the same gang that burned down your last home? And that’s exclusing the fact they are the same person who performed CPR on you a year ago when everyone else was standing around fretting how you’d die.

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just pointing out why the Horde PC and a very, very select few others might be given exceptions.

4 Likes

That did seen to have come out of nowhere, but there can differentiation between Horde that participated in the War of the Thorns and those who did not, as Lilian Voss covered:

    Not all Forsaken agreed with Sylvanas’s actions. We did not want Teldrassil to burn.

    We’re not the monsters many think we are, and it’s time more people knew that. Maybe this will help.

    For her part, Shandris has been patient and welcoming.

The Alliance player (especially a Rogue) has also had a number of opportunities to quest with Lilian Voss throughout the game.

That does not mean all Forsaken are welcomed, though. Notably any that participated in the Darkshore Warfront (no, not including the Undead Night Elves) should still be held accountable, as Belmont of all people noted in the Forsaken Heritage Armor questline:

    There’s people in the world with good reason to hate the Forsaken.

1 Like

Except my characters would call for the Horde to help. Not when they burned the last World Tree down. They’d be the last people I would call lmao. Especially when they were the perpetrators to begin with and why we’re in this mess to start with. If Teldrassil never burned, then there wouldn’t have been a need for Amirdrassil.

2 Likes

There was never a need for Amirdrassil to begin with; they could have just made Hyjal as the permanent capital in a questline like what the Horde got post-Shadowlands for the Ruins of Lordaeron and finally put an end to them shoving Night Elves in just about every facet of the story.

4 Likes

That much is true. Especially since it’s been their home since after the Sundering. And built it up more to look like a capital and have some quality of life stuff. Like a village, a Temple, etc.

3 Likes

IDK, all I can say is thankfully Tyrande isn’t as… Discriminating when making the call for help and seeing a dainty li’l blood elf eager to murder all the things she needs murdered.

If she were all like “oh no, no thanks, not you” then, y’know… Down another world tree.

I mean she used to murder wardens when she tried to free Illidan, and destroyed Alliance camps in wcIII. She’s the last person to be asking for help.

1 Like

So this is getting very weird now, but I’ll stay on board.

You know, it’s kinda hard to say Tyrande doesn’t ask for help while using an example of the time she did ask for help, first from the wardens to get Illidan then from Illidan himself. But even if you need to discount that, you have the same war this occurs during that showcases Tyrande willing to put past grievances asside for the greater good, and coming out the other side willing to forgive; the Battle for Mount Hyjal.

And all of that is to ignore that even if we take the least charitable and most unflattering view of all of that, to ignore that characters do develop.

4 Likes

Can we just like… not anymore?
Can we just stop talking about this same topic 300 times?
Can we just like… not compare and bring up real world genocide over and over and compare it to this goofy fantasy game?

Like, yeah, okay…
If you compare this genocide to another genocide the events of time don’t necessarily match up… okay.
Not every genocide in history needs to follow a dedicated timeline.
Others aren’t in active and total war with the former perpetrators of genocide, particularly if that genocide was followed by complete and total regime change by the perpetrating party afterward.

Like, yeah, you can believe it’s “unrealistic” for the Horde to be helping defend Amirdrassil, whatever.
What’s the goal here?
Keep saying that it’s unrealistic over and over until the sun burns out?

Honestly guys, this is a wacky cartoon universe surrounding a video game.
This is the most recent content within that video game.
They’re not gonna bar half their playbase from new content or split up content arbitrarily because it isn’t perceived as “realistic”.

Like, I’m sorry guys…
But if you wanted a realistic depiction of genocide to be done by WoW… that was never going to happen.

It’s reckless and bad, yes.
But at this point Blizzard is just trying to move past all of this so we can just… leave it as a past plot point that’s been wrapped up.

Like, Night Elves aren’t real people, the genocide of the Night Elves never really happened, no real people suffered…
It was a dumb, ill-thought out way of having bad shock value surrounding war as a marketing gimmick from a bad expansion.

Blizzard wants to leave it done and over with and leave this in the past.

What else is there really to talk about that hasn’t been said 300+ times about this, honestly.

6 Likes

I actually came into WoW like in the middle of Battle for Azeroth and didn’t know anything until I played through the game. I think that having fantasy events mimick real life events is a very cringe mood. However, I play on a rp server where people do compare it to genocide. And that the story writing has to make sense.

And nothing with Dragonflight makes sense to me. You also have the option to just scroll, which makes your post, ironic.

4 Likes

I have been scrolling.

I’ve scrolled through this forum, the community forum etc.

This topic comes up again and again.
I see the same thing said, again and again and again.

That was kind of my whole point when I posted that comment.

I mean no offense when I say this. But it was blizzard who labeled Teldrassil a genocide, and now we’re stuck with the consequences of that labeling and what it entails for the story.

I know it’s Fake, fantasy and not real or whatever else people want to label it, but it happened, it’s part of the lore and people have the right to discuss it

8 Likes

My suggestion to you is, if this is something that really bothers you and affects your time on that server, to ask these people the following.

“Hey, remember that time when Satan stabbed the Sahara?”

“How shocked were you when you first learned that the proponent of the events in Germany in the 1940s was secretly in league with a different, more powerful Super Satan and that said proponent was only causing his genocide not out of racial hate, but because it was the most expedient way to start off a global war that would send the souls of the dead into Grey Purgatory so that Super Satan could use their souls for fuel for his vast death army to push his way into Mechanized Quasi-Heaven, all in the hopes of gaining access to the literal Deus Ex Machina so he could reboot and reinstall the cosmic operating system with himself given full admin privileges?”

“I’m just as shocked as you are that some Rabbi invoked the dark aspect of God’s Might to defend his people during WWII, only for the power to start eating him up. But not as shocked as I was when I learned that he later was fully possessed by God who then chatted with his God-Sister, and even after hearing God say to his God Sister that the Rabbi had to choose between vengeance for himself or renewal for his people, the stupid Rabbi stupidly chose his people!! So unbelievable, right???”

I’dgo on, but I think the point is made.

Excepting purely real-world reactions from people living in a very unreal world is good, but not when you have to go out of your way to remove the unreal aspects of their world for your real-world reactions to make sense.

1 Like

I just took it as fans and rpers making weird comparisons. But Blizzard actually writing it and doing the comparison, well it tracks.

Still is cringe. But it tracks.

4 Likes

That’s a critique I have seen before from others who participate in WoW’s RP.

And tho I get it, I also think it just needs to be let go.

BfA was, perhaps, one of the most devastating pieces of lore to hit the story.
The War of Thorns and its ramification have had ruinous consequences to the setting.
There’s a reason DF just sorta happens and Horde/Alliance are working together like neighbors.
Because BfA started a story that could not be given its due, because its due was doodoo.
It was shock value with no consideration to how it would effect the setting nor how it could be resolved.

Blizz has been trying to walk the line between moving on from BfA while also trying to fix the problems it inflicted.
They’ve done a so-so job about it.

But many people are just tired.
They just want the story to move on.

5 Likes