lol there are no words
2 Likes
Do not let the living into the gorges.
Escape Lordaeron as Arthas.
Defeat Varimathras / Detherok / Balnazzar with Sylvanas / Sylvanas and Varimathras / Sylvanas, Varimathras and Garithos.
The path to the secret passage.
Labyrinths of the nerubians.
Run after the collapse of the tunnels.
Obelisks.
tbf Ainhin, we know from shortstorys and ingamequest that the forsaken later on still tried to free mindslave from the scourge (like Nathanos, he wasn´t brought up in wc3, and was later on freed, like many others propably)
Nathanos (and a lot of other Forsaken actually) are kind of weird because they seem to think that it was Sylvanas that freed them when in fact it wasnât. At least not literally. She did not have the power to break the Scourgeâs control over any given undead and the only reason that she and others were able to break free is because of Illidanâs attack on the Frozen Throne.
She âfreedâ them in the sense that she organized them, but she did not literally free them. Given what we now know about her it seems likely that she desired that the Forsaken believe that she freed them though in order to fortify her cult of personality.
I wouldnât be surprised if a lot of the âhumans rejected youâ sentiment was part of that as well. BtS demonstrated that she had a strong interest in isolating the Forsaken from any living person that they were close to in life, although we also know that to a certain extent she genuinely believed that the living would reject the undead. The only reason she agreed to The Gathering was because she believed it would end in tears and was shocked and angered when it didnât (which is part of a long pattern of her getting insanely triggered whenever sheâs exposed to positive sentiment.)
2 Likes
Iâm fairly sure she did personally manage to free Nathanos but yeah it was less necromancy funtimes and more appealing to the person he once was and persuading him to break free, a bit like Alexandrosâ ghost did to Darion Mograine.
5 Likes
Many forsaken were only able to âŚstay on the forsaken side because they have a symbol, sylvanas was this symbol and gave them strength to defend themself before the lichkings cold grip.
Its may not sylvanas own deed that set her and the other free, but it was sylvanas leaderskills that gave them the inner strength and hope to hold themselve together.
And we knowâŚsylvanas helped them, we don´t know how exactly, but sylvanas helped them, even in wc3.
Sylvanas can literally free mindlocked scourge. She did it to a dude in the Traveler series just by screaming at him.
3 Likes
Thatâs a good point Iâd forgotten all about the whisper man!
Banshees/shadowpriests also can free the minds of undead. Alonsus Faol perhaps was freed by Sylvanas.
3 Likes
Sylvanas has always had the key to making new forsaken, Blizzard just didnât want to talk about it.
- Banshee Scream
- Death Knights
3 Likes
- I doubt the general death knight populace has the ability to make sentient undead aside from the Ghoul. Those that do would bind them to the ebon bladeâs cause and NOT to either faction(as shown by Legion, the death knight seems mostly independent regarding the factions with only casual ties to it).
- banshee scream/bansheeâs do not bring undead back to life. As show by Warcraft 3/Vanilla lore the Banshee are not able to raise undead. Hence why Sylvanas actually needed Valâkyr in the first place!
2 Likes
Nah. Didnât even exist, if you doubt me, you can check the Wc3 manual tho.
Nighthaven was only the capital in the RPG.
I donât have a copy of WC3 now but I do recall ingame references to Nighthaven.
They donât have to, even if they canât (and Iâm not admitting that. This is just for the topic of âif they canât.â)
They make the undead, and Sylvanas or her banshees free them.
Done and done.
1 Like
But those wouldnt neccesarily be Forsaken. They would just be undead. The Forsaken have at least had a relatively ânormalâ cognitive function. It ultimately depends on how you define who the Forsaken are.
They are/were suppose to have âfree willâ(yes yes Sylvanas didnt really believe in it but still point stands), you cant have free will if you are just a mindless slave.
1 Like
The OG, pre-Valâkyr Forsaken were pretty much universally bog-standard total normie Undead. According to Dark Mirror, Nathanos was a regular old ghoul. There was nothing special about them. Their minds were just freed and there was enough left of them to regain sentience.
Because of this I find the âDKs canât raise sentient undeadâ argument a bit silly and purely headcanon, since the undead that became the Forsaken were never intended in any way to be special. Just a bunch of ghouls.
A better argument would be to query how many undead a Death Knight can raise and personally sustain. If it takes the death knightâs own energy/power to keep those undead animated then itâs still not a viable solution, which is why Army of the Dead is a very temporary ability potentially.
2 Likes
No more (or less) than any undead raised since Cataclysm.
âJoin us or donât.â
But that again begs the question of if ghouls raise by the Death Knight will gain their intelligence back? Or do they forever remain nearly brain dead slaves of death knights?
There is no question the ghouls/forsaken are effectively the same. What differentiates them is intelligence(hence why not all ghouls are automatically forsaken)
That is the point, the Forsaken were given a choice. Does a death knight ghoul even have the mental capacity to make a choice?
1 Like
Death Knights were created as champions of the Scourge. They wield the power of the Scourge, taught to them, by and large, by the Scourge.
They wield the exact same power as that which raised the Forsaken, so I honestly canât see why not? Saying Death Knight ghouls are somehow inherently different than any other type of ghoul ever seems, to me, a headcanon.
Intelligence AND free will, Iâd contend. Which begs interesting questions in and of itself with the destruction of the Helm of Domination. What prerequisites are required for ghouls to still have free will beneath all the control? Are they a minority? If so, it seems lucky that Sylvanas managed to get so many of them. If not, it makes me wonder why thereâs not a heap of new free willed undead wandering about since the destruction of the Helm. Lots to consider there - I hope Danuser give us some answers!
1 Like
Forsaken were anomolies. The âsame power as the Scourgeâ normally should just raise near mindless undead. It was the Lich King weakening that ultimately gave the Forsaken the ability to gain back their will. Thus far every lore ghoul raised by the Death knight are relatively mindless slaves.
1 Like