[Night Elf Thread] Don't tell me to wait and see ever again

Ah, a fellow Turin man. (oh wait, others use the same phrase, d’oh!) Wood Elves are a little too psycho and flip floppy for my taste. I really enjoy it when they are being cool/kicking butt, not so much when they are kidnapping/killing kids from Brettonian villages. Darn Wild Hunt.

Don’t worry, everyone will end up in the same place as us, it is only a matter of “Wait and see!” No one will be spared the bad writing. NO ONE. :frowning:

Well said.

I really have a hard time wrapping my brain around why we have become as vicious as we have towards each other. I mean, sure I remember the rage at getting camped in various areas in Vanilla, but surely that kind of experience shouldn’t carry over? I don’t ever recall this kind of situation occurring in any other factionalized game.

Take tabletop players like Warhammer. I have never encountered someone who hates Chaos for real, even when they RP as Witchhunters or something. What is it about WarCraft that gets people so riled up?

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IMO blizz contributed with building up frustration to the overall negativity. The create invent problems to solve, and “resolve” them in a way that does not address what irritates the players.

Problems left ignores. Pressure builds up. Either it blows on random thing, or just people loose interest, and only more radical members endure.

So, while sad, the devs invested their efforts into getting in a situation we’re in IMO.


gl hf

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Yeah, sometimes I feel like they had initial ideas and talk as if those initial ideas are what were implemented in game, instead of what ended up making the cut. But they could have thought Malfurion saving Tyrande as the night warrior twice was his “shining” moment, that or the cutscene.

Okay, real question: in FFIV, is there any way to skip all the clicking to hear everything the quest giver has to say and just pick up the quest already? Because honestly that’s about half the reason – maybe 2/3 – that I just…can’t with that game. It’s very like WoW, but slower and the character models all look weirdly disproportional to me. I can probably learn to live with that, but the quest text…the quest text just goes on and on and on…

Is there a way to skip it?

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As far as I know, no. You just gotta click like a maniac if you want to get through the text boxes ASAP.

To expand on Chronorabbit’s answer to this.

A faction rivalry in an MMO draws on an eclectic brew of psychological drivers from the simple conditions of a rivalry itself to the personal investment in an RPG, to the core reasons for why we play video games in the first place - those being to fill psychological needs for autonomy, competence and relatedness (that is that we can make decisions, that we believe we can effect our decisions, and that our decisions matter to the world around us).

To summarize that, as Neo put it: the problem is choice.

We choose our avatar. We experience the world through their eyes - we step into their shoes. Our behaviors actually change subtly to fit the character that we are playing (a thing observed as the “Mimesis Effect”) We are led to care about the things that they care about, and they are in our minds the protagonist of an inherently emergently told narrative about the things they did in traveling the world and taking part in these adventures.

Through Vanilla and BC, while yes, there was a story in the background, most of this experience was relatively freeform and emergent. Our tale was consistent of our actions - the quests that we took, the things that we did, the friendships that we made. But sometime after that, Blizzard decided that they wanted a more active role in storytelling - they wanted big, flashy epic things about their characters, which takes a lot of our choice away. This can be annoying - having all of the important things done by the important characters - but it’s not actively toxic.

It got that way when the faction rivalry was run through this mindset.

Dave Kosak described the framework as “the Hero Factory” in response to accusations of faction favoritism in 2011 - that heroes only rise through adversity, and therefore really bad and sadistic things had to happen in order to encourage heroes to rise. This was in response to widespread Alliance criticism that Blizzard had, by fiat, established that the Horde was beating the tar out of them all over Azeroth.

Now pause and recognize what that is - this is stepping into a competitive, multiplayer environment, and - instead of relying on the illusion of choice and competence to make people feel, through their gameplay, that they had either accomplished something or needed to work harder - having the developer put their thumb on the scale and DECIDE who gets the awesome moments and who gets to look like a loser on the basis of nothing more than their personal preferences. I’m also confident in saying that because the Alliance as an entity typically doesn’t have its victories portrayed, or it’s made to look weak, or the victories aren’t said to matter - and crucially, the devs put little to no attention into the critical task of making the Alliance at least appear to be just as awesome and just as interesting as the Horde - they were just bored with the whole idea.

The Horde meanwhile is split. You have people who are into the rivalry who enjoy winning, regardless of that feeling being manufactured, who want to keep winning. You also have the people whose entire faction identity is getting trampled because of the Hero factory concept - and it was the exact same problem in Cataclysm as it was in BFA - only more intense. The psychology of the rivalry means that neither side will give an inch - and we have seen the results of that as Alliance brand equity continues to slip, resulting in more and more faction balance issues both here and in Classic. The Alliance is boring and it sucks. The Alliance is cringe. The interesting races of the Alliance were sanded down, and once again, no one wants to fix it.

What is the most important thing in an RPG? It’s your role. It’s your identity. What has Blizzard done with respect to the faction conflict to that identity? They have attacked it, viciously, and they took away your agency in what you can choose to be, how competent you are, and whether your actions matter or not.

You aren’t just going down a bad road, you’re powerless to stop it, and the conflict with the other side is to blame. You have bad emotions that a competently run rivalry would allow you to work out through gameplay. This one, if you’re on the Alliance, repeatedly denies you the catharsis that “the Hero factory” implicitly promises - as it did in this case, and that feels awful. If you’re on the Horde, you’re told that you’re pure evil when you may not have done anything to deserve that. Your choice is thrown to the wind, and people like me will be here to deconstruct whether your motives were ever really good in the first place.

That’s the closest I can get to an answer for you. If you want a summary - it’s because Blizzard crafted a scenario that would generate this kind of hate with an artisanal precision.

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This honest to God feels like a parody.

The sheer contempt not just for storytelling but the basic notion of object permanence is astounding.

How are you going to have a character betray and massacre her own people, lie and massacre a population center explicitly stated to be bereft of military targets, start a world war, betray and disown her own faction- reveal this was all in service to essentially Lucifer…

THEN TRY TO WALK THAT BACK

And that’s what they’re doing. You’d have to be cinematically illiterate to suggest otherwise. She looks so small and vulnerable at the end of the cinematic. You’re not supposed to want vengeance, because beating the ish out of a sad looking prone woman isn’t anyone’s idea of retribution.

They went pedal to the metal on making this character so easily hateable. And now they’re going to try to break? Good God.

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I’m not one to usually pull the “slap in the face” line, but I can’t think of anything else to describe what Blizzard is doing to Night Elf fans right now. I really feel for you, this is just atrocious what Blizz is doing.

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I call it “Tuesday”

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Honestly I feel like I’ve just fallen for an elaborate prank.

"So there’s this character called the Banshee Queen and she’s not a nice lady but she is at least a good leader to these people called the Forsaken.

Oh nevermimd she regards them as disposable tools.

Oh nevermind actually she cares for them a great deal.

Oh nevermimd she at best cares for them in a psychotic Norma Bates kinda way.

Oh nevermimd she doesn’t care about anyone actually.

Oh nevermind actually it turns out she had her soul split, but it’s restored now and she’s basically that character you briefly met in the WC3 campaign again."

‘That’s certainly a lot. Any chance a Forsaken character might be on hand to at least remark on any of this?’

“No.”

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I might do that. I have already made an Elezen Arcanist, that I want to RP as some kind of Void-touched or something, because my friend has a guild that are like… Voidsent hunters or something. Idk, I don’t know anything about the lore yet.

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wen u can spesk and spel in 6 otter langauges hslf as good den get bak 2 me

u csn dstill undrdtsnd me so get beter materiel

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I bet I do speak 6 other languages as “good” as you, and spell them better.

If you can’t be bothered to proofread yourself, at least use a spellchecker. It can tell you which ones are the vowels, at least.

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Mor is online

cool cool cool

gues u hvae noting of vsalue to giev execpt innsutl my type

wont feel bsd for tihs block

kinda patetic ngl

Thinking about the endless and disturbingly detailed “How I want Sylvanas to die” threads, I’m not so sure about that. There was a lot of “And I want to see her be totally helpless and fearful when I smash her.”

This is what happens when a major character gets written by committee.

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Add screwing over the people she died protecting to begin with to the list. Condemning them to soul torture in the maw and causing the Scourge to possibly genocide them again.

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Well yeah there’s a lot of people playing this game with not much going on in their lives who think a fictional character actually wronged them.

But some sort of vengeance would’ve been nice. I figured she’d earned at least a 90s Disney villain death.

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I came offering the only solution

Hard Retcon the past 3 years

Literally just “Realm Reborn” this mess

Publish a FREE PDF BOOK detailing the new canon

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