New(ish) Holy Paladin Mythic+ Question

Classes Paladin
1

I’ve looked everywhere for a post on this, and perhaps it’s buried under a lot of other stuff. Or I’m an idiot (entirely possible).

I came back to the game around the end of February, and the last time I played was in Wrath. I loved my holy paladin then and just decided to keep playing her when I came back; obviously, the spec has changed drastically. I did solo stuff (screwing around in old content/leveling/world quests/relearning the class cd’s and spells) until about 6 weeks ago. Just started doing double digit keys around two weeks ago.

I’m not aces at this by any means, but am doing my best to improve. Did a 13 earlier today (explosive week) and had someone whisper me a ‘pro tip’ that “in high keys healers should do damage and get all the orbs”. I averaged around 2k dps that run and did my best to smack as many orbs as I could.

I totally understand there are a ton of things I’m working on, and I desperately need to learn a lot. Still learning where BoP/HoJ/Blinding Light are actually effective, what to save cd’s for on trash pulls/bosses, and etc. Wingsisup helps with those kind of dungeon specifics, and that’s been a great resource. But I mean, I still occasionally freak out and back out on messy pulls with a ton of ground aoe to spam FoL for a few seconds when my leggo cd’s aren’t up, or don’t use LoD enough, or HoJ the wrong mob/spell on a pull, or don’t lay down consecrate enough when big aoe goes out to the group, or other holy pally idiot moves. I get it, that’s a bad holy paladin, and I am actively working on it.

BUT, all the “get good” behaviors that I recognize aside…how do people negotiate getting all the orbs as holy paladin? I can get 1-3 that spawn in or near melee range by smacking them, but am I supposed to like…save judgment and vanquisher’s hammer and hammer of wrath (when it’s up) for that stuff? The 13 was a gambit and we pulled two packs of murlocs on the first pull and like 5 orbs spawned at once all over the place. Legitimately, how do I get to all of those in time if that is the healer’s job?

Obviously I still generate holy power if I’m hitting an orb, so that’s fine, but if I’m actively doing my job in a pull it’s up in the air whether the ranged stuff is off cd to be used. Super sorry if this question is dumb af. I just feel like I’m running around like a chicken with its head cut off on some of these pulls and still failing.

Also am having trouble finding a hard number for reasonable dps as of 9.2.5. I know our dps is lower since the nerf, just not sure what is expected now. I’m running SB instead of Vanguard’s for pugs with more than 1 ranged, so that doesn’t help the whole dps thing.

ANYWAY, I’m not trying to whine or say it’s too hard or anything, and I know I’m not where I need to be skill-wise yet. I just want to know what the goal is, you know?

Also if you’re looking at my gear and spec and like “wow, that’s not right”…I change it to cavalier and glimmer for world questing because I’m that person that quests as holy even if it’s painful. And the gear is a toss-up on some slots because I just haven’t run enough to get BiS everywhere. Thanks in advance to everyone who actually read that wall of text!

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Easy, it’s not easy lol.

Hpals are probably the worst healer to do this since they don’t have a spammable button for each orb, sometimes you have to wait for crusader strike, judgement, holy shock, etc to come off CD. Best advice is if your overall damage is lower but you’re getting like 90% of the explosives then that’s a good thing.

For the record, a 13 is not a high key at all so if the person who gave you advice saying

Meant the 13 you guys were in as a “high key” tell him/her to kick rocks lol.

Watch any streamer doing like 27-28 + and you’ll see their healers doing less overall dps than normal

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I’ve tried a full on mongo dps build in a 15 just to test it out. It was a plaguefall 15. I did 2.6k for overall. There were wipes but yea…By full on dps build I mean I took avenging crusader, took virtue just in case healing would be needed (could swap this for glimmer for more damage…yay) and I think at best it would get upto 3k. This vs a holy priest that just presses boon off it’s cd and ends up at 5-7k for overall damage with most of that damage being significant burst or a resto shaman doing about 5-6k passively just by putting down a vesper totem.

Your 2k dps is fine. It means you’re actually crusader striking and holy shocking for your damage as well as keeping consecration uptime high. Healer dps right now is just very imbalanced. Oh and the legendary I was running was the hammer leggo for more dps. Still topped out at 2.6k. Similar numbers in a sanguine depths I healed…as venthyr hpal which ashen hollow is just gutted for holy.

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I honestly kind of wondered when he said that; like a 13 seemed fine for me to still be learning how to negotiate things like that if we aren’t wiping and stuff is dying. It’s not like I’m running 20+ keys asking a team to drag me along, you know? Anyway, thanks for the reply!

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For better dps just make sure you’re using your wings and covenant ability as much as possible. Don’t hold them for a “oh no” moment.
For explosives yeah I’d holy shock them, pretty much anything I got. If all else fails run next to it and auto attack. 1 will kill it.

Also like to add that healer dmg is reliant on group play as well. Good group means more globals for dmg and vice versa. :slight_smile:

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You’re doing nothing wrong. You should try to help out with the orbs, but it’s ridiculous to expect the healer to get ALL of them. This is ESPECIALLY true for holy paladins, given that we are melee.

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I agree with this. If you have a Resto/Ele sham in your group they will get the majority of Orbs. Because they have an insta-cast (Frost Shock) and with a mouseover it’s easy. In general tho it is a team effort.

I am like the OP, I just started out doing Mythics this season and have pugged my way up. This week I had a couple of all melee 15/16 groups that were EZ PZ. Because in those groups, with our Holy Pally heals, Orbs were everyones responsibility.

On the other hand I had 3 or 4 HoA groups in a row, fail this week at the first shard, with different healers, because the tanks pulled too much into the shard. The groups either didn’t do Orbs or couldn’t keep up with the spawn rates. I tried to get as many as I could… but there were sooo many of them, and the ones way outside the group… No way am I gonna get those - lol.

I made it up to doing 13/14 groups last week. The level 13 to 15 groups have had the highest variation in outcomes. Either they go super smooth, or they are train wrecks.

To the OP - Good luck out there!

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The person whispering you is just being a lazy damage dealer, as a holy yes we can help clear the orbs, but it’s a lot easier for DPS to tab it and hit it.

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For explosive in order of ease of killing: any priest with sw:p or ptw or if you’re really good at it in shadow, sw:d with death and madness > any ranged hunter with autoshot > rogues or dhs with fast movement and auto attacks > any caster with a cheap relatively short cd spell > any melee including healers with auto attacks.

Melee tend to be last because they physically have to move to the explosive or use an expensive resource. So the blanket idea that because you’re the healer you take care of all explosives just doesn’t apply. At best we fall into the third last category with holy shock.

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Well, the idea behind healers doing as many orbs as they can (particularly the higher you go, when the timer is harder to make) is that DPS GCDs are a lot more valuable than healer GCDs, since on average, a DD is going to do a lot more damage in a GCD than a healer. Damage Dealers spending more time on orbs (generally) means lower damage on mobs which makes pulls take longer. Since a healer does the least damage overall, the group (usually) loses the least mob damage when a healer is getting more of the orbs.

Obviously, some healers (read: not Paladins) have an easier time of it. However, in PuGville, and in lower-mid keys everybody should try to be responsible for orbs, since in those scenarios, wiping due to orbs going off is in most cases going to be a bigger problem than timing the dungeon.

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