New WoW cosmology (spoilers)

[Arlifrex-moon-guard (Arlifrex)]

What would you have preferred wisps to be?

[Raselle-kargath (Raselle)]

@Katiera-moon-guard

its pretty clear

Well no, it isn’t. That’s the point. We’re told two conflicting explanations specifically to keep us from actually knowing what’s really causing it. It’s a textbook case of bad things happening, both sides blaming one another and nothing conclusive given to prove or disprove either, meaning either could be right, or both could be wrong.

@Katiera-moon-guard

he doesnt, he says the void sees all paths as truth, and that the light sees one path as truth, he never says who is right and who is wrong (Cause nobody is)

Exactly. Because the truth is the truth, irrespective of what either side expects to be true, and nothing she sees in her visions is actually confirmed as true.

Both AU Draenor and Alleria’s visions are examples of not being able to know how much - if any - of what we’re told/shown by either party involved is actually true. You seem to grasp that, yet insist in the same breath that it’s being made obvious what’s really true.

This isn’t the Light being villain-batted. It’s just one more case that it - like anything in WoW - can be tied to bad actors who can do bad things. Which we’ve already known for as long as there’s been a Scarlet Crusade, and arguably since Arthas started doing objectively bad things in WC3, yet didn’t lose his connection to the Light until he took up Frostmourne.

[Kazthan-argent-dawn]

So Arcane is now simply called order?

This looks even more basic than the last one from Chronicles.
Will see how long this one will last. For now, knowing they retcon everything every expansion I don’t care.

@Grandblade-wyrmrest-accord

Why in the hell should I ever buy another lore book if anything and/or everything in it is subject to be changed or discarded on a whim?

This.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

@Arlifrex-moon-guard

What would you have preferred wisps to be?

souls Aessina picks, Aessina being like Bwonsamdi, a mortal soul that was “elevated”, maybe the first Night Elf to die and the Winter Queen vibed with her and made her a wild god

idk an actual answer at least

[Kazthan-argent-dawn]

@Raselle-kargath

This isn’t the Light being villain-batted. It’s just one more case that it - like anything in WoW - can be tied to bad actors who can do bad things. Which we’ve already known for as long as there’s been a Scarlet Crusade, and arguably since Arthas started doing objectively bad things in WC3, yet didn’t lose his connection to the Light until he took up Frostmourne.

You can say so yes.
In Chronicles it is shown that Light and Void want to dominate and consume. There is also the Illadan Novel where the light destroyed a world. It crystalized everything on the planet. Alas Chronicles seems to be almost useless at this point.

[Katiera-moon-guard (Katiera)]

@Kazthan-argent-dawn

where the light destroyed a world. It crystalized everything on the planet

forgot about this but yes the light has been "villian batted for a while now

[Vespero-durotan (Vespero)]

I feel like the snake in the shape of an infinity symbol that goes from being a skeleton, to alive, to back to being a skeleton is significant.

It’s starts at Death, moves through Order, crosses through the middle to Disorder, into Life, into Shadow, crossing back through the middle, into Light, and back to Death.

@Baalsamael-turalyon

They rearranged the elements completely

I think the Elemental planes where never meant to relate to the outer planes in any way. They’re just meant to be arrayed along the inner circle.

[Zahirwrite-farstriders]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

souls Aessina picks, Aessina being like Bwonsamdi, a mortal soul that was “elevated”, maybe the first Night Elf to die and the Winter Queen vibed with her and made her a wild god

I would challenge this view, since we know that the mother of the Whisps is a companion of Elune, it could be assumed that Elune is also responsible for her form. One must admit, of all the Wild Gods, she stands out the most.

The interesting bit, they prefer Elune as Deity, but…they “beings of her origin can´t be trusted”, beings of her origin are most of the time mortal beings. The Shaowlands and their view on Mortals is the same view we have, if we go to a filling station…its more a ressource as really a …own being, with their own importance beside Anima.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

@Vespero-durotan

I feel like the snake in the shape of an infinity symbol that goes from being a skeleton, to alive, to back to being a skeleton is significant.

It’s starts at Death, moves through Order, crosses through the middle to Disorder, into Life, into Shadow, crossing back through the middle, into Light, and back to Death.

the changing of spaces doesn’t matter because it conveys weaknesses and strengths

Shadow messes life up

[4:26 AM]

we’ve known this for years

[4:26 AM]

emerald nightmare

[4:26 AM]

light messes death up

[4:26 AM]

we’ve known this for years

[4:26 AM]

WC1

[4:27 AM]

this would suggest that death is naturally resistant to shadow(edited)

[4:27 AM]

we’ve known this for years

[4:27 AM]

wotlk

Copy pasted what I said to someone else in discord.

[Garriah-scarlet-crusade]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

? I never said they retcon’d decay? I think you’re conflating my complaints that Blizzard ignored the death aspect of in-game religious shamanism in this whole expansion

You’re right! It was driving me nuts, so I did a deep search, and I was confusing you for Droite! Droite claimed that Decay was literally retconned by not being mentioned. I was losing my mind, now I can sleep…

@Droité-black-dragonflight

Well until Shaman’s connections to Spirit and Decay was chucked in the trash

@Garriah-scarlet-crusade

So you’re saying that Blizzard has literally, officially retconned the existence of the Spirit and Decay elements and the Shamanistic connection to them?

@Droité-black-dragonflight

More of a soft-retcon

[Zahirwrite-farstriders]

Shadow messed death up aswell…shadow messed both up.

[Thalunis-grobbulus]

While the retcons are stupid and the lack of consistency in the universe makes it impossible to care at this point, Void being “renamed” Shadow is not a retcon. Shadow and Void were always the same thing just with two different names. The original cosmology chart lists Void as Shadow magic as well.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

@Zahirwrite-farstriders

Shadow messed death up aswell

Nah.
You’ve failed this argument twice before.
Yogg-Saron, the God of Death, couldn’t control ghouls, Death knights, sentient/sapient undead who lived in necropoli or towers made purely of Old God blood. They wear armor of the same material. Wield weapons of the same material.
The void was terrified of Sylvanas because she served Death.

[Shernish-nazjatar]

Believe the words of the Void. A thousand truths and all that …
What else was the Void whispering to Alleria?

[Zahirwrite-farstriders]

@Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord

Yogg-Saron, the God of Death, couldn’t control ghouls, Death knights, sentient/sapient undead who lived in necropolisi or towers made purely of Old God blood. They wear armor of the same material. Wield weapons of the same material.

And Yogg’Saron is all the power of shadows?

Please do not be ridiculous. We know that Shadow almost destroyed Maldraxxus and the Bastion. (And that without an Old God), if Death was really resistant to it, not so many would have died against it, many were even corrupted aswell. If death would be really immune or resistant, then this could not happen in the first place.

Then we know about the Drust, a plane that calls its home, closer to death than life and completely corrupted by Shadow.

Yes, Death was threatened several times by the Void, as well as by the Light.

The really arrogant thing about it is actually the attitude of the Shadowlands about it. “They almost destroyed us but…they don’t matter here”.

[Thalunis-grobbulus]

@Zahirwrite-farstriders

if Death was really resistant to it, not so many would have died against it, many were even corrupted aswell. If death would be really immune or resistant, then this could not happen in the first place.

Forsaken literally have a racial called Shadow Resistance. Being resistant also doesn’t mean immune; paladins are resistant to necromancy but they still had their order crushed by Arthas. Also that the Void and Maldraxxus fought and the Void lost isn’t exactly a point in the Void’s favor.

[Zahirwrite-farstriders]

@Thalunis-grobbulus

Forsaken literally have a racial called Shadow Resistance. Being resistant also doesn’t mean immune; paladins are resistant to necromancy but they still had their order crushed by Arthas. Also that the Void and Maldraxxus fought and the Void lost isn’t exactly a point in the Void’s favor.

If we would know that the void lost, yes, until now we don´t even KNOW Why the Void attacked Maldraxxus, or why the void was even there. We know more about the Void invasion of bastion as about the voidlord in Maldraxxus. The one thing we know about this event is…that it was an void lord there.

If the void objective was to gain something and had succesed and leafed thereafter, it would be not a win for maldraxxus, you know.

Thats the point, we know from a grave that a voidlord was there…so, thats all.

[Thalunis-grobbulus]

So it’s either a point against the Void or we can’t draw any conclusions from it. Either way, this doesn’t imply that Undead/death isn’t resistance to Shadow magics as we have the undead racial in the game standing as a direct counterpoint and being resistant doesn’t mean immunity in any case.

[Zahirwrite-farstriders]

Worgen have it too, by the way I think Draenei have it too, and didn’t even Darkspear have it before?

At least it was not that rare, the Racial.

The point is what I mean by that is: Resistance to what? Void is more than mindfck, being more resistant to whispers says nothing about the void not being able to just undo an undead like anything else…into nothing.

Worgen: Anomalie “1% Shadow resistence”
Undead: 1% Shadow Resistance.

If i log on my draenei and lightforged, i will see aswell…1% shadow resistance, a racial of this kind is no argument.

[Thalunis-grobbulus]

What, yes, so worgen and Lightforged Draenei are also resistant to Shadow magic. I don’t see your point. Worgen are literally created from an artifact blessed by Elune, and Lightforged Draenei’s resistance to Shadow magic should be obvious.

@Zahirwrite-farstriders

void not being able to just undo an undead like anything else…into nothing.

Any magic can kill anything if it’s powerful enough. Shadow magic is not especially strong against undead though, given that they’re resistant to it, but it can kill them in the same way you can still melt a heat resistant metal with enough heat.