Fair enough. I was initially in that boat, even when I had nothing but the trailer to go off of. I was basically “well the horde still deserves a punch in the mouth, but maybe I can distract myself with the side content” but it got so much worse lmao, to the degree that I couldn’t even really enjoy that because the faction war hangs over the mood of the story like a wet mist.
I figured you would have been hung up over Sylvanas being your racial villain even from before BFA. Sorry for assuming.
Yep. I vaguely recall something about Blizzard being surprised about the negativity surrounding it.
It’s amusing (not the right word but whatever) because it made you more invested and made me less invested.
I think it was terrible shock storytelling that landed flat for everyone. I think it was unnecessary and stupid. And I think it left the Horde (as a whole) stuck in a part of the story where redeeming the faction itself seems like a joke in concept.
We can spend the next decade trying to redeem ourselves (yay) or we can try to sweep it under the rug (ugh) or we can hope Blizzard will make us a victim of far worse atrocities (fun! I love being atrocitied!!) to somehow make us feel … less evil?
You’re not entirely wrong in your assumption. I have, since Cataclysm, seen her as a villain, both on my Worgen and Forsaken characters. And it was damned satisfying to see Genn smash her plans to bits, along with her Lantern. But it was more of a background thing, compared to the main stories. Bfa changed that, and turned her into the main antagonist, worse than any that had come before, in terms of damage they had done to the Alliance.
And I feel like her getting away after all of her sins, would be a massive slap in my face, after they tried so hard to make me care about her, and her defeat.
It made me invested in the wrong things, for the wrong reasons. I allways saw the faction conflict as something stupid, from when I first started to play. Why fight when the whole world is on the brink. Bfa completely shattered that. Because it made the Horde a worse threat to the Alliance, and far more hated, than the Scourge, or the Legion, or even the old gods.
Wow wow wow now. Easy there.
She’s been a villain since Classic Wow. Please, don’t disrespect Sylvanas like that 
This might seem odd but honestly you kinda just hit the nail on the head for me.
The non-faction “bad guys” don’t really succeed (much). Yes we lost at the Broken Shore. Fine. Garrosh time traveled and destroyed all the decent parts of Orc lore. Gul’dan did … Gul’dan things. Lady Vashj controlled the water supply! Which should be awful but somehow isn’t because some bad guys slice worlds in half.
If you ignore Pre-WoW it limits how much damage the Scourge and Legion (on Azeroth) did. I might be wrong here, but while the Old Gods, et al are portrayed as world-ending threats, it seems like in terms of “successful murder” the Horde is the worst of the bunch. The others had potential, but we executed (not intended as a pun).
That is how I see it as well. Why Blizzard couldn’t see that, or the consequnces for the story going forward, is beyond me. But I will drop dead before I let them off the hook after what they have done. They will fix their mess, or I am done.
I think you better prepare to enjoy an indefinitely long WoW vacation then. Cause if the current dev team can be trusted for anything, is for denying there´s a problem with their story or their gameplay. It´s not even that they lie, is that they even REFUSE to admit there exist a problem in the first place. And that they promote a working environment designed to achieve this.
The problem from my perspective is that I don’t even know what isn’t going to “let them off the hook.” Let’s say Sylvanas dies and some Horde NPCs sacrifice themselves to save Tyrande and … something positive for the Night Elf souls (rez, bring to Ardenweald, put in the Emerald Dream, whatever).
Then what? Because at that point we aren’t even at break-even. Maybe in 9.2 the Horde starts… let’s just call it Habitat for Elfmanity. We rebuild stuff (to be honest I’m not even sure why the Elves would let us but whatever).
And then … what? We are still awful. If the next expansion tried to paint the Alliance as evil - by even going to the internment camps for Horde races route - why wouldn’t it seem pretty justified?
WoD showed Orcs are bad without demon blood. The Forsaken have done some villainous things. The Darkspear aren’t bad, but a few expansions ago we all fought off the Zandalari, and the Gurubashi et al are bad. Blood Elves and Nightborne are mana addicts (ha). Goblins were neutral and basically have been portrayed to sell out anyone for a profit (oh and murder folks for stuff to blow stuff up).
We are left with Highmountain Tauren, regular Tauren, Vulpera, and some Pandaren. So I guess if the Alliance murdered a bunch of fur-covered babies it would be “too far.”
That’s partly why I would be good with walking back genocide. The Horde is painted into a corner and there’s not much of a way out.
At this point I think she could only be explained by there being at least 2 to 5 individual Sylvanases (Sylvanice?).
I mean that wouldn’t even be the dumbest thing to happen in this universe. And it’d let you have your cake and eat it too as we can punish Mirror Mirror Sylvanas but can still keep Sylvanas Prime and her very marketable appearance in the game.
That wouldn’t be a good idea but it’s the only explanation I’ve that doesn’t involve busting out a retcon chainsaw. And after the Undercity went from the nation with arguably the most individual liberty to a book burning police state in BtS I’m frankly kinda nervous about that prospect.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but I’m not so sure he will show up in the story again. I’m afraid Blizzard may be done with his character.
Plot twist time!
Sylvanas’s soul was sundered just like Uther’s, but the jailer nicked that half as a backup plan since Arthas wasn’t playing ball and has been processing that soul fragment ever since Warcraft 3. That’s why she finally felt whole again as soon as she went to the maw; the jailer merged her with her CoRrUpTeD rOpE tHrEaD.
Gasp! Drama! Suspense! Twine!
If Sylvanas dies, they might make Nathanos a boss in the JAILER’S Dungeon, where he’s trying to avenge his lady-friend.
Anything but this. I’d rather her go down as the mostest evul villin of all time than this soul splitting crap.
I mean, if we’re being accurate. Like, has anyone else noticed that the Jailor’s forces are essentially worthless if they don’t have bodies built for them? There is a reason he either uses countless souls to build suits for his minions to operate within, or he works through proxy forces. Nate lost his physical body against Tyrande. Who knows how long it will take before he gets something he can use to interact with?
I hope she doubles down on it.
It’s hard to articulate, but just the general tone. Pop-up books are inherently un-solemn, while Elegy was very solemn. And I definitely wouldn’t expect them to make pop-up books for a thing that they expect will enrage and divide the fanbase for years to come. It suggests to me that they thought the response would be more lighthearted at the time they designed the pop-up book (speculation: how late could the text in it have changed?).
Yeah, I feel like pop-up book will always bring to mind children’s books to me.
I read A Good War first. I didnt get to experience the prepatch event (still mad about my bat mount). When I experienced it through AGW I was like ok… ok… this is interesting, Im on board!
Then I read Elegy and it left a nasty taste in my mouth. Then I watched the Warbringers: Sylvanas Windrunner cinematic. I was like Huh… that wasnt the impression I got from Brooks’ tone
Point is, I was pretty much on board with the story despite the way the other sources made it feel, because my first impression of the events were from AGW. I think the first impression makes a difference. I actually am glad I didnt get the mount from prepatch because I might have hated the whole expansion otherwise.
I love my bat mount that I got, I named him Batty, and no I had nothing to do with burning Teldrassil COUUUGH.
But if it makes you feel any better the bat was the only good thing about that event. A Good War and Elegy are all you really need to know, the in-game stuff was not very well-done, they made no attempt to maintain consistency with the novellas etc. For example, in-game Saurfang and Sylvanas just walk away together awkwardly at the end with Saurfang not saying a word about the burning. No one knew he even objected to it until days later when Blizzard released Old Soldier.
There is a lot to unpack here. So I want to break it into its parts…
Because fans like to discuss the story. Since Golden introduced the idea that Teldrassil was an act of genocide, Alliance fans, and people who generally dislike Sylvanas have shut down the conversation with “MuH gEnoCides!” An Azerothian Godwin’s Law. Introducing the idea that there can be more than one way of looking at the event would go a long way toward healing the wounded pride of a great many fans. Which is important because people aren’t overwhelmingly masochistic when it comes to gaming.
If that were the case, why wouldnt I say “Blizzard should just say it wasnt a genocide”? Why would I adcocate for a position that preserves the Alliance position?
You want me to sod off for not wanting to stomp on Alliance players?