I definitely think Void Torrent becoming Mind Flay: Insanity is a good idea. Especially with the way it’s competing with Damnation.
Either way I am just bouncing in my chair waiting for the changes to get added to beta so I can start playing around.
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I know right?
Was trying to raid tonight and I almost wanted to sit myself because I couldn’t focus, I just want to think about new Shadow <3
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I meant “new” as in what these changes bring compared to what SL is like now. Not what BFA is like.
But your right, from BFA to SL we are seeing a lot more CD’s.
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I would like this change as well… But only if this is the “main” talent that drives you to a more single target face melting build.
As it stands now, with “Dark Thoughts” that is already driving you more towards Mind Flay melting build. I think if this was 50/50 proc from Mind flay and proc from dots then you can pick other builds that fill in the other 50% towards single target face Melter or more dot rot/spell cast build.
I’m not sure I follow what you are saying here, for reference Dark Thoughts is passive not a talent:
Dark Thoughts (Passive) (Level 16): For every damage over time you cast on the target, Mind Flay and Mind Sear have a 2% chance to gain a Mind Blast charge and make it instant cast. For the next 6 sec. Mind Blast can be cast while channeling Mind Flay or Mind Sear.
The effect of “Dark Thoughts” can stack up to 5 times if it procs several times in a row.
Since my proposal was for Void Torrent to become an empowered mind flay, it would presumably also proc Dark Thoughts: though I should have stated that at the top.
In which case, the choice between Void Torrent and Damnation should have no impact on how often you proc Dark Thoughts. Void Torrent simply does more sustained single target DPS, albeit at the risk of a channel, while Damnation is instant cast and better for multidotting.
I mean “Dark Thoughts” should be tweaked a bit so that you don’t have to channel mind flay or mind sear to get the instant cast procs from MB as the ONLY method in getting those.
I think it should be the “strongest” method, but not the ONLY method. I think a version of Divine Insight should still be baked in with dots procing without the aid of a Mind Flay or Sear on them. But its just really low % chance.
For example…
This will work just fine with “Dark Thoughts”
This will not allow you to focus more on dotting as you dont get MB procs from “Dark Thoughts” as it is currently. Instead, I think you should not have to be forced to use Mind flay or Sear to get procs as you can still get procs from dots, albeit its a much lower proc chance but should be “decent” once you got a lot of targets dotted up.
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Ah I see, good point!
In that case, the best thing they could do for Dark Thoughts would probably be to put it on a Hasted RPPM proc rate. Then they could balance it to say, “10 procs per minute”, and decide “thats too high, lets nerf it to 8” etc.
Then they could make it proc from all damage, but control the proc frequency - rather than 2% per Flay tick, which will create some bizarre behaviour.
Edit: Just to spell out what “bizarre behaviour” means for any devs reading this.
What the current Dark Thought proc system incentivizes, both in Arenas and in Raids before a priority target or burst phase occurs, is this:
- Wait until all 7-8 stacking cooldowns Shadow now has are all available at the same time
- Accumulate 100 Insanity and don’t spend it
- Only cast Mind Flay until you have all 5 Dark Thought procs available
- Apply DOTS
- Activate all 8 cooldowns so they stack together
- Cast Devouring Plague
- Cast 6 Mind Blasts in a row (DT x5, then hard cast Mind Blast)
- Finish with DP into SW: Death
It would be good to avoid that.
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Yup something like that. You got it.
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I’ll put this on the feedback forum after I’ve played around with it but I generally agree. Even though I stopped pvping on shadow long ago (might change now!) I saw the removal of Shadowy Insight as a big hit to them since Dark Thoughts was only coming from mind flay spamming.
4 Likes
The buff only lasts 6 sec.
See bold.
Dark Thoughts (Passive) (Level 16) – For each of your damage over time effects on the target, your Mind Flay and Mind Sear have a 2% chance to instantly add a charge of Mind Blast, causing it to be instantly cast, and allowing it to be cast while channeling Mind Flay or Mind Sear within 6 seconds.
- Dark Thoughts can stack up to 5 times for situations where the Shadow Priest will proc many in a short time.
So I don’t think there is much risk to “holding 5 stacks”.
Also, with this…
See bold.
Voidform no longer reduces the cooldown of Mind Blast, but now refreshes the cooldown of Mind Blast and you gain 2 charges while in Voidform.
It implies (to me) that you only have 1 change of MB baseline and then only 2 while in Voidform.
So when you read this…
See bold
Dark Thoughts can stack up to 5 times for situations where the Shadow Priest will proc many in a short time.
It reads like its stacking instant Mind Blast procs. But it “feels” like it should be “stacking” your “proc chance” to get the Mind Blast procs.
This whole “charges” of Mind Blast being baseline 1 then Voidform 2 then somehow 5 can pop up? but then what happened to the baseline 1? Its confusing.
Again, testing is needed to confirm.
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I’m really interested to see what’s being done with Void Eruption/Void Bolt. Since we’re getting VF as a 90 second cool down how does that work with VE/VB? Are they still tied into Void Form or is VF an entirely separate button now?
It is looking like they are both still tied to Void Form. So we get the burst of aoe and then we get to mash void bolt and mind blast during our 15 seconds of Void Form.
There should be lots of spirits flying out during this window for sure.
Shadow definitely looks like it needs haste somehow from its mechanics or interactions. In WoD shadow had a passive that was basically 5% expedient. It doesn’t need to be flashy, I’m just mildly concerned how much haste this version of shadow would feel like it needs.
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We’re getting Power Infusion as well, so there’s that.
Except that’s more cooldowns to stack up and take power from the base spells, it’s also still castable on allies instead of us.
3 Likes
Yea I agree it’s not ideal, but hopefully we can get some testing done on these changes and see how the rotation feels.
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Power Infusion as a cooldown only helps when it’s active, whereas the issue is Shadow craves haste to function, even with these changes.
When Fire mages faced the same problem they resolved it by giving them baseline Crit %. I would happily remove Power Infusion to see some baseline Haste % in Shadowform.
Even if that means removing Shadowform’s 10% base damage, and replacing with 10% baseline haste, even though that’s a nerf - it would improve the feel of the spec.
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I wonder if there would be a way to add a stacking haste passive to one of our dots. Maybe Vampiric Embrace?
Maybe have LoTV allow further stacks so that those who liked that play style in Legion/BFA can have a semblance of it as well.
But then we’re right back to having ramp up time. So maybe not.
Nothing is a buff of a nerf until we’re in the live game, but I get what you mean.
Yeah let’s try to avoid that.
The only problem I have with this is we’d lose it upon entering Void Form unless it was baked into that as well.