To summarize they nerfed Assassination overall damage (16%) and melee damage by (20%) but buffed Fatal Concoction to (20%/40%). . Not feeling the Assassination tuning to be honest but there is more beta tuning to come.
Outlaw saw an increase of instant poison to (50%) but given it was a low value to begin with I doubt that moves the needle. Blade Rush damage increased to (15%) to primary targets which is extra nice . Scoundrel strike damage increased (15%), MG damage increased (150%) but overall damage reduced by (16%) . For Outlaw it looks like the emphasis is on extra attacks carrying more of the workload but the downside is that abilities feel less impactful like CP generators and finishers.
Subtlety Black powder damage reduced by (9.5%) , Secret Tech damage increased by (8.5%) , Improved Secret Tech damage bonus increased to (15%) . Replicating Shadow Damage bonus for Shadow Clones reduced to (15%) .
Darkest Night was buffed to 40% from 30%.
Hunt Them down damage reduced by 20%.
Corrupt the Blood is bonus damage to Deathstalker mark (20%).
Symbolic Victory nerfed to 15% from 18%.
Sub’s Nimble Furry from Trickster has been changed according to patch notes. Only works with auto attacks, Unseen Blade and CDG. o.O
Overall the tuning for Rogues this round is a mixed bag of good and bad. Interested to see if there will be any more changes to talents at this point. Also looks like the general class tree talent changes probably are on the backburner for a mid expansion patch it looks like too but there is still time in beta.
I wish they would stop forcing passive damage on outlaw, we got mastery and both hero talents giving us passive damage. I would much rather have nerfed passive damage and be able to hit hard with abilities
The datamined changes for outlaw show they buffed BTE, pistol shot, and sinister strike pretty substantially. The official notes don’t mention it, but I’m hoping the datamining is correct and was just overlooked in the official notes. Outlaw definitely needs more of its damage coming from abilities instead of random crap or its going to feel just as underwhelming as it currently does.
Yes I noticed that on wowhead where Ambush was buffed too.
Not sure what is true but if you are in beta you can test it out and lets us know.
Currently it feels the emphasis on poisons and autos is truly closer to how it was in TBC-Cata era of the game. But the downside is if abilities feel less impactful it will feel like a pointless ritual than actually fun and engaging CP generators and being rewarded with meaty finishers. Fingers crossed on that one.
Its odd because the dps in high keys assassination wasnt even in the highest ones currently. I was looking at rogue for potential main but dang already being mauled by the nerf bat.
Mostly because they 0’ed the aura buff tuning for a lot of specs, hence why the datamined stuff shows buffs to specific abilities to compensate. The end result should be a net positive
It’s just something they do every beta for every expansion.
Like you wouldn’t believe the shock that a lot of tank players and guardian Druid players had when guardian had its 1000% aura buff 0’ed for the first time since warlords of draenor.
Overal a lot of solid changes, I just hope they give outlaw a tad bit more energy
I need like double the energy regen right now. even on a jackpot KiR extension you can get in bad energy scenario even during AR where you just feel starved of energy. prep feels pretty good for a double AR for an opener, but yeah. the energy right now feels bad bad.
That is because to make room for the new energy talent Flickering Steel and Fatebound energy talent they nerfed other energy talents. They did something similar with Assassination energy talents to make room for Implacable.
So yeah right now the energy tuning for Assassination and Outlaw is in a state of flux and not finalized.
yeah a lot of the time it feels like you are wasting KiR potential and it just sits there. if prep was on the restless blades list I think it would be at least a little stronger, its great on the openers though for sure. but yeah nothing really stands out, I kind of miss ghostly strike and underhanded upper hand. lmao.
I mean doesn’t loaded dice already create weird holding gimmicks with both ar and rtb? isnt this version of prep basically a gimped concept of uhuh? via blowing all your CDs in a opener, and then prepping them back to do it again/keep uptime. to cycle finishers for more cdr to get back to the next AR window. its just uhuh with extra steps, a lot more involved steps and not using subterfuge windows but hopefully you get what im saying.
if it was a restless ability you can just play deeper into the cycling gimmick of the specs identity, people say they want that high apm well i mean prep kinda does that right?, without having to inflate more numbers but instead let the rogue do more things. we are gonna be using BR so much already and its not like we are really going to use BF on st? so whether or not a few things that do or don’t reset shouldn’t matter long as you are funneling the cds that do matter during prep usage. you get AR back faster than you do KiR anyways right? mind you KiR is a 6 min CD on the RB list.
and we already feel pretty energy starved as is, so idk having a faster prep to cycle stuff sounds pretty good just for energy management alone, more BRs / ARs = more energy return right? but I’m not math nerd enough to say what an appropriate CD would be for a prep on restless blades. when KiR is 6min and rarely feels like it gets proper value.
and bte stuff just happens when it happens. and its not like prep is a utility button for resetting vanish like the old version, now its at least another CD to use for more optimal/optional rotations. idk, either way imma still mess around with prep and stuff and see how the expansion evolves and see if rogue gets anymore love.
or maybe just a shorter CD. 4 mins feels like forever with no restless blades.
even ghostly strike is on restless although its RIP going into midnight but still a 1.5min CD just going brrrr thanks to restless, another thing why isnt vial on restless like come on bro the self sustain in midnight is giga oof, we got sprint on there for crying out loud.
i mean even AR itself which funnily is a talent? and just not a base line ability? the illusion of choice. is on RB list lmao. it just makes sense to put prep on RB because KS is on it and that is an optional capstone talent as well. everything else in that list is something you are using rotationally or movement.
even the dragon bone dice talent gives RB cdr “10% greater” so somewhere in the mesh of this 3rd spec the whole point is to just CDR and pump CDs, having prep on RB kinda just fits the scheme of the spec. at least to me. i mean its not like Sin or Sub is getting prep anyways. like they used to have access to. so why not add it to RB. and like most of us agree on all these capstones feel lack luster right? so why force the new return/revamp of a button/capstone to not interplay with the rest of the kits identity and flowing mechanics.
weird choices always being decided for this spec with no real vision or decision of what it’s really doing.
idk man i just wnat prep to give us 2 charges of bte and adr, thats all it needs to do and it goes from the weakest cd in the game to a actual capstone level talent
Was really hoping to see the retractable hook talent reappear for Outlaw, coping that they’ll bake it in with Grappling Hook by default. Right now slow hooks feel awful for our mobility.
idk man. thats a pretty lazy way to maximize the ability making it only do 2 things. when resetting all the abilities opens up a lot more rotationally. i mean like whats the point in the charges for bte… AR i can understand but bte is kinda lukewarm in terms of damage right now and you already get false crackshot vibes, why add another charge just to make people that dont like using the gun, use the gun more? we got rid of crackshot and put it somewhere else so its not a forced use via vanishes. adding another charge is just giving you another chance to proc into bte spam. i dont think that should be entertained. 2 charges of AR also makes kind of no sense man. prep is already doing what you ask, but you are overthinking “oh i need to put everything on CD to maximize pressing this button” when if it was on RB list, just keep dishing out finishers and it will be back in like a minute. who cares if your BF doesnt get reset? you basically can already keep up full uptime on BF and BR as long as you are hitting something with finishers.
i think they dont want prep on RB list because it takes away from your fake crackshot fantasy gun spam now. and actually lets me hit other abilities during combat.
and no you’d still hold RtB after an AR if you are already in jackpot state. unless you are rerolling the max buff..? then idk what to tell you big dawg.
its already a good capstone, it just need to be on the same level as similar capstone i.e killing spree which i said was an optional capstone and its on the RB list. so idk if we wanna argue what prep does in general, sure, but it makes no sense from a logical stand point for KS to be on RB list if its an optional capstone talent and prep not. same with KiR. the longest CD we have get RB. so idk. things would flow better if prep was on RB. charges would add nothing but another chance to proc bte spam because prep already does what you want for ar, its not like you will hold AR charges. you send that on CD always unless the boss disappears for cookies and milk.
you got soft hands brother. you are scared of prep and it shows. you want the easy way out with lame charges. its cool for stuff like vanish, or feint, HECK VIAL SHOULD HAVE 2 CHARGES IMO. but not AR or BtE. thats just boring vs what current prep allows you to do.
Prep was used for long CDs and not for short CDs (eg 5 minute vanish in old school WoW).
Same with the Midnight version that Outlaw has with that version of Prep. Midnight Prep would be used to reset AR which is a longer CD as well as Kspree.
BF, BR and BTE are short CDs that you don’t really rely on Prep to reset anyways. Just a nice bonus.
i mean, ya if you use bte charges back to back then it does basically nothing. its very much a skill ceiling thing that should increase outlaws viability, its prio target. you save the charge for when you need it, when something appears that needs your maximum output now. like brackenhide totems. which is a big reason why vanish charges and crackshot was insanely popular and liked within the highend.
frankly this is a net positive for everyone. you dont have to use the second charge of bte you can just send both charges as well, your only going to get one or 2 extra casts of a bte in a 5min fight if you use charges on cd, thats the nature of charges in general without something that procs charges.
again same reason, for prop target and for downtime. prep doesnt really do what charges can do
especially if its just a 4min cd not on rb.
i guess you can add a charge on br that woul,d help the energy issues on outlaw. but a charge on killing spree wouldnt be to useful.
i mean your holding rtb if you have a jackpot sure, but a jackpot is a small chance. nothing really changes, same rules if you have 6 buffs from rtb now.
but its not, its just extremely weak, your not even taking it in any build. thats how weak it is.
yes it would be better, but it would also kinda be icky? cause that would encourage you either A holding prep until adr is over to get another adr, thus wasting cdr on prep, or press prep when you press adr and thus holding your adr and thus wasting cdr on adr cause its already ready to press. this also applies to ks, but are fairly strong buttons.
it just doesnt feel good.
i dont want to be rude dude, like im not scared of prep. your just overestimating prep because its good in the content you do. which is frankly, not content i think blizzard should balance or design around.
I mean that is rude, to say “hey I don’t want the devs to balance around your ideas or content you play”, well I think blizzard should stop catering to math nerds who get their jimmys going off simming a.. 33.33 repeating of course improvement to their who cares damage.
the entirety of midnight is being balanced and designed around everyone. stop thinking only top end exists (not even 10% of the player base btw). games getting simpler for a reason man, instead of thinking in “top end” which is ridiculous btw I really hope you aren’t like that irl.
but you need to look at the whole picture, the whole cake, the entire pie. and the whole picture shows midnight is getting pruned and squashed cause there’s not as much top end as the entire rest of the player base.
delves popped off for a reason, blizzard said “transmog is a end game pillar” or w/e, only reason you probably dont think so is its probably content you just dont do. I can only imagine what a “top end player” does with their time.
Keys, wiping to mythic boss till you kill boss, keys, afk in dorn while making a group for keys, maybe make a horrible transmog to assert your dominance while doing keys, sim, sim, sim, sim
most of you top end people are robots bro, do you even have fun?
“ah yes I have fun running on the wheel every season to get my titles and keystone portals, and make sure to not miss out on my fomo rewards mmm oh boy, if people quit the game that means the pixels are all mine mwahahaha, I would have never gotten any of this if I took Prep as a capstone, HAH!”
that’s what you sound like to me man. some elitist soft handed pink bar. I expected better from you.
again, I’m also trying to make the point that the button is good compared to what it used to do before coming back, doesn’t mean it can’t be further improved or revamped further ya know? either your way or my way or probably knowing blizzard, removed and blizzard decides removing uhuh wasnt a good idea so we are back to TWW outlaw rogue in midnight just with less of the goods, regardless its about seeing actual change and not sitting on a bugged class/spec for another year again… its about having fun dude.
i mean the only reason i said that is because you didnt grasp the reason why multiple people are asking for x,y,z. you thought it was pointless and people were wrong to ask for it, thinking it was “more gun” when its really not. it was just an addition that would benefit the people who wnat it and not hinder anyone under it. it was the most fair suggestion that doesnt change anything for anyone who doesnt need it and you took issue with it.
i would say that either, some specs are getting more complex going into midnight. your only seeing it in the lens of the content you only do, your not bothering to expand your knowledge and see it in other perspectives. your just content because your type of content is virtually untouched while pvp, keys, and raids get significantly worse
like i dont think you understand the sheer loss of accessibility with the removal of weakauras. especially for people who need audio ques for cds and such. now i have to spend hours in blizzards poor ui to recreate the same thing i have in weakauras that accommodates my disability
there wasnt much between the rest of the player base and top end to begin with. it was just outlaws apm that hard gates people. we like to pretend here that stuff like “rtb variance” or “Crackshot variance” is the reason why outlaw was “new player unfriendly” but the reality is that these two sources of variances dont do much to your overal damage, the main issue is people not managing their rotation correctly. from multiple logs ive seen from people here the issues are always not pressing adr, or overcapping combo points, ignoring opp procs, playing wrong talents, ect ect. the fundamentals are being missed and come midnight, that wont change.
delves are done by top end during the first 2weeks or more cause its free resources. dont pretend the pillar is being ignored by the top end when its not. again delves was a solid addition for EVERYONE hence why its added. the only issue is that top enders dont think delves should reward mythic level gear. which i believe is fair unless its tied around the ?? level delve bosses
again if your acting like this because i suggested that you dont do the content and thus dont understand or wish to understand the suggestions being made. then idk what else to tell you
like im telling you the facts, prep is just a bad talent. you get one cast of it during most boss fights. it conflicts with the engine of outlaw and rotation, and the only content i see this being useful is world content. its so bad that your not taking prep at all. people will realize that when its live. obviously the only people that will cope saying its “good” are just the usual rabble on the forums.
like yall also gotta understand that most of the changes in midnight were suggestions from the “elitist tcers” yall despise.
those same tcers are saying that prep is bad, saying prep is better than old prep doesnt make new prep “good”. putting on restblades just makes it a thing to track which blizzard is trying to push away from.
look again, if you dont get it then you dont get it. thats fine, but dont pretend to know better when you dont even want to try the content these suggestions are being made for.
and melee damage by (20%) but buffed Fatal Concoction to (20%/40%). 
. Not feeling the Assassination tuning to be honest but there is more beta tuning to come.
. Scoundrel strike damage increased (15%), MG damage increased (150%) but overall damage reduced by (16%) 
