Exiles reach is a good idea, but it completely missed the mark and it doesn’t help that some classes get dispels and interrupts much later. I just ran a levelling dungeon in BFA for the first time since prepatch, and damn players have no idea.
Got to the second last enemy group in TD near the canon and we just couldn’t kill them. I ask for others to use their interrupts and what does one of them say “Don’t DH’s have a ton of interrupts?”, another says “I am interrupting”, damage meters show no one but myself doing any sort of interrupt wile 3 of the players were sitting on top of the enemies and just dying to all the crap they could easily avoid.
Classes need to be redone to give an interrupt AND dispel before you leave exiles reach, or get to the level you can start doing dungeons.
Exiles reach needs to teach players:
How to interrupt and why
How to dispel and why
What aggro is
What each persons role in a group is
Why standing in the crap is bad
Why body pulling, and anything related is bad for a group
In that run I done, many times the other players would pull pack after pack and just pile the enemies on top, and not intentionally, they just had no idea what was going on. And being in a BFA dungeon with how packed in some of them are is not good for new players with no interrupt, dispel and who also now have an AOE cap.
I have been having a lot of fun running low keys and carrying the group and watching fresh/returning players die when I can’t carry them through a mechanic
Mindbender/ flesh carve in Shrine is a favorite also the oozes in Workshop
Sure you tell em “If you get the beam stand in the green” when you’re ressing them but I think people just need to be more aware of whats killing them. Which goes to your point of making it a point to teach new players WHY you dispell/interrupt, also maybe making it a bit easier to identify what is more important to interrupt/dispell. Its hard because usually the longer the cast the more important it is to kick, but debuffs are so diverse and dispells on such a long CD, dispelling the wrong thing/ not having the correct dispell may wipe your group (Looking at you K.U.J.O.)
You know FFXIV is, quite arguably, a better game than WoW these days…and surprise surprise, here is another reason why…
In FFXIV, before you get to your first dungeon, you get to do a set of quests that reward INCREDIBLY powerful gear that’ll last you something like 10ish levels or something…but the purpose of those quests is to teach you the fundamentals of your role (a class can only be 1 role)…this even includes basics such as focusing a target, dodging AOE’s, and even clicking interactable things.
I don’t think Exiles reach is the right place for that, but proving grounds is and absolutely should be redone and mandatory for people to use LFG. Bronze for normal dungeons, silver for heroic, and gold for mythic 0 (yes I’d put mythic 0 dungeons in LFG).
This is just unfair and untrue. Exiles reach is literally a hand holding experience that teaches the person how to move even (and has custom quests/objectives for each class). WoW is just too deep of a game to throw what is essentially a competent normal raid mode / mythic 0 dungeon player (based on OP’s teaching requirements) into a quick tutorial island.
I would like proving grounds back
BUT
I want LFD gone and would like to just have everything done through group finder like M+
You select the dungeon you want and difficulty then when your group fills you can teleport to your factions main hub on the continent the dungeon you selected is on
the best way i can put it really is to NEVER get discouraged even by nasty comments because there are ALWAYS helpful players and nice people out there that can help. that as well as to keep playing and keep trying to learn about the game on your own.
when i first started playing i dealt with the exact same thing and i was a healer. i didn’t get better until i actually started to try harder content and just keep learning outside like i’d look up mechanics prior as if it were a raid.
the way i look at WoW is like a job. you cannot expect people to be good upfront even though they have experience you need to give them time to adjust and don’t baby sit them all the time they need to learn on their own and from their own mistakes. this is how we train new employee’s at my job. we baby sit you for 2-3 weeks max and on your 3rd/4th week your on your own. you can ask us for help if you need like questions but were not going to baby sit you and show you how to do everything you need to learn.
BUT yes i do agree that WoW should do a better job at teaching them some of the more basic stuff you mentioned like interupts and all that. it’s all trial and error. i do understand it’s hard for them to get into groups willing to let them learn trust me i been there done that but there is always going to be people who willing to help.
Gatekeeping anything lesser than mythic+ is pointless since the content is easy enough that any typical group should be capable of clearing it. Removing a useful tool like LFG just to force people to sign up and hope to be chosen is horrible and will literally lead to excessive cherry picking which is what led to the LFG tool to begin with.
You technically can do it your way anyway…just make a normal/heroic dungeon group in LFG and wait for people to sign up…it’ll be slow and you’ll likely not get a group filled that way…and then you’ll get the real experience of what dungeon life was like back then for the non favored DPS specs and lower geared players back then.
So is getting some one who clicked prot for the first time and q’s up
Oh no! Then you might have to gasp find a guild
And if you can’t get invited to runs in guild then the balance is just that bad and on Blizz to fix.
Do I like that classic has absolutely dead specs? No
Do I like chatting people up while running to SM? Yes, it lets me get a feel about my parties experience with the game and I find it easier to adjust my tanking to the group.
New players need a way to learn and practice in a group environment. Plus YOU have the option already to be sure of their skill by not using the tool and forming your groups by hand and using that time to professionally interview each applicant to make sure they are worth the time.
Take yourself out of the pool of LFG players if you can’t handle that you might get some that are newer or more inexperienced in the role as you seemingly expect/demand of them. Like I said, you have the option to play retail WoW your way. You can sit in trade chat and spam your dungeon recruitment call or even use LFG to list a manually forming dungeon group.
Using your philosophy new players just shouldn’t group up period, and spend the entirety of their wow career just doing world quests until they quit. Did I get that right? Because joining a group with a first time tank is awful?
Its a leveling dungeon, guys. If you can’t get through it, teach them. If that’s too much for you, lfd might not be your thing.
Except players don’t join dungeons to teach people unless it is premade with friends or guilds, or you are one of the few nice guys left. I am certainly not joining a levelling dungeon as tank to teach people, it gives me a faster queue and lets me break up the monotony of questing.
I just can’t imagine what it would be like with 5 brand new characters running BFA dungeons, it would be a nightmare for everyone. How than are they supposed to learn?
That TD dungeon I ran, if I did not do as much as I did, and I did tell them to use interrupts and not stand in the crap, than we would never have passed, 2 of the DPS just stood there getting whacked by the AOE and dying over and over, if they had a new tank doing the same, you could forget about ever passing that dungeon. The last 4 enemies in that dungeon are a group killer if you don’t know what to do, like the healing guys at the start of Shrine.
I said I like to talk to the group to gauge their experience so I can ADJUST MY tanking
I have no issues with teaching people what to do
What would give you that impression? The part where I said trials could be pretty good? Or the part where I said I like running to dungeons with a group so I can feel them out and adjust how I tank?
I don’t know what your point is here besides maybe some passive aggressive remarks on my ability to run LFD?
The only feasible way I see handling this is to bring back getting skills from class trainers and when a new player learns a new skill a pop up will tell them to return to their nearest class trainer to aquire it. There they’ll get a quick run down of what the skill does, the appropriate times to use it and a chance to test it out with the trainer. Veteran players can toggle this off.
While leveling, if you don’t want to play with brand new players, play a different expansion. You shouldn’t have to have friends to join lfd and the learning starts somewhere. It sucks to get paired up with so many fresh players all at once but that’s kinda what you sign up for with bfa dungeons right now. You have the option to use chromie time right now. They don’t.
Are you suggesting that experienced players shouldn’t ever run with new players?
A GUILD!!! That is what they are for “/g hey guys I want to tank but haven’t done it before anyone want to go run something?” Too bad you can’t invite people to your guild that you meet in LFD.
The first snippet you quoted was me being passive aggressive. The second was me being serious, but I possibly could have misread your intentions as well. It’s more towards people who just expect leveling dungeons to be free easy passes with all players who’ve played the game at a high level for over a decade. It’s just not a feasible expectation. Brand new fresh players are joining an mmo wanting an mmo experience and if we ever want this game to grow instead of crying that the game is dying and bleeding subs, we have to act like it. Instead of being toxic about it (again I’m not necessarily referring to you), if you DON’T want to help, drop group and try again.
I like going out of my way to help new players with some gold when they ask.
I’m fairly certain that a lot of these people are just alts, but I think there’s a ton of new players out there that actually do end up getting some gold when you give it away after awhile. It’s a nice feeling!