New Mythic+ System.. Nice Job Blizzard!

Community General Discussion
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After reading a thorough review of the new M+ system for Season 4 I just wanted to stop by and make my own thread after commenting on a few different ones, and say nice job for once to you Blizzard!

Let me preface this by saying I’m someone who used to play quite competitively on various toons getting KSM every season on multiple toons + portals etc. Let me also preface it by saying I’m often very, very critical of the choices Blizzard makes, many of which seem to make no sense at all.

The new system I think will get some push back at first, as usually do most changes. Humans tend to not like change.

This is my take as someone that used to play competitively but now just likes to do world content and low level keys for low mid level gear. I like to get just enough gear to steamroll world content and dungeons and solo stuff, but I no longer have any interest for now in doing +10’s or higher. Although that may change some with the new affix progression system I might find myself doing up to M0 now which from what I read are now equivalent to the old M10’s.

So, the main changes are that heroic dungeons are now the equivalent of M0’s in terms of loot and rewards. You can que up with the matchmaking system, steamroll a heroic and get flightstones and the old M0 level of gear, which is awesome for gearing alts just saying because it keeps heroics relevant all the way through an entire expansion!

So … heroics are now M0, M0 are now the old equivalent to +8 to +10 give or take, +2 is now the equivalent of a +10 to +12, a +5 is an old +15 and a +10 is an old +20, etc.

It also eliminates the need to go and apply to a bunch of +2’s or +3’s just to farm flightstones because you can use the matchmaking system. Win win! This will mean that players who are super well geared will wind up farming them when they just need flighstones but will get placed proportionally in a random setting to players who are lower geared. The chances of steamrolling heroics went from fantastic already, to even better than fantastic. It also means super well geared and high IO players, when they are in “flighstone farm mode only” will be helping lower geared players complete heroics faster, again win win.

The next biggest change is that the timer has been removed for the new heroics (m0), and m0 (+8 to +10 difficulty), again another awesome change that allows players to have a much easier time upgrading and farming their gear to a +10 level, without people leaving because they don’t want a bad IO score. You can’t get a negative penalty for completion if there is no timer. For anything up to a +10 this is something I actually suggested myself over a year ago, and I’m really happy they’re implementing it. Best decision in a long time!

Why? You can find 1000+ threads on this same forum of players telling other players they should be able to +++ a 10 or 12 no problem. If that’s the case, why have a timer and force unnecessary group breakups if a group happens to get a bad player in it? Most people will stick it out and finish to get their crests and rewards if they aren’t taking a penalty for missing a timer.

This keeps the timer where I believe it belongs, in the more competitive bracket of M+ which now is +2 and above, with +2 being the equivalent of an old +10 or 11, give or take.

The next biggest change are the affixes. Once again, the affixes now start at +2 (the old +12 equivalent) +5 (the old +15) and +10 (the old +20) again, putting the heat where it really should be, at higher brackets while lower and mid brackets should be for learning, gaining experience, getting rewards for effort. Where as high mid, and high brackets should have the most challenging content, and most rewards.

This new system will streamline more players playing together in the queable experience, it will keep heroics relevant through an entire expansion by making it a place you can go to immediately start gearing up a character and gaining flighstones. It eliminates the need to constantly introduce catch up gear each patch. It makes it so that players might be a lot more nice to one another to finish up a dungeon even on difficulty up to +10 (the new M0) because there is no timer, and no affixes or super hard mechanics for rando’s to do, and yet right when things should start getting hard which is the old +12 or so (the new +2) they start introducing the timer again, as well as your first affix.

This actually creates the best of all M+ worlds in terms of experience, reduces the number of keys you have to grind, but increases the time spent at each key level for sure if you’re a mid level player. Increases the odds of a better less toxic player experience, people leaving keys, etc but still has a level of difficulties aimed at those who love competition. It also lets mid level casuals like myself grind decent gear without a huge ceiling like M+ gatekeeping on invites and without the trouble of running my own keys to circumvent that.

I’m sure people resistant to change will still complain at first, but after giving it some comprehensive thought from last night until this morning I have to say… based on what I read so far, I really am a fan and I do think it will have me far more engaged playing with others in the heroics and M0 scene in a far more relaxed avenue than even what the current +2 offers.

I really, really hope this system is carried forward to all future seasons and not just a one off.

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Neither heroic or M0s had a timer to begin with so nothing was removed.

They just increased the difficulty for those 2 difficulty tiers…heroics by a little and M0s by a lot.

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Correct, but that generalization also means that now the timer no longer exists for anything up to +10 difficulty rating. Currently the timer exists from +2 and above. So players completing their M0’s in the new system for the week (because they are still on a weekly lockout) will have a much, much easier time getting groups that stick together to completion while being able to grind out up to veteran quality gear with no timer and no affixes. 10/10 in my books.

But also they start introducing the timer and affixes back around the old +12 difficulty which is now +2 in the new system. Which to me, is just perfect. Frustrations can kick in right around where they should, at the beginning stages of actual competitive keys. Because virtually no one thinks +8’s or 10’s are competitive currently except maybe the most casual player who doesn’t do much group content to begin with.

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In general as a higher end player I don’t care about the changes one way or another.

But overall, as I posted in other threads, I see this system being a disaster for lower skilled casual players. Instead of being able to gradually increase difficulty as they learn they now have no choice but to go from current M0 to current M+10 with no in between. That’s more than an 85% mob/boss damage and hp difference in one step.

We’ll see how it goes, but I see this as a disaster for lower skilled casual players and creates a skill gate for entry into M+

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That’s a lot of text of what I can only assume is personal opinion.

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Glad people like the changes, but this change just screams that a lot of players weren’t engaging with M+ or dungeons at all.

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And that’s exactly why they have no timer and no affixes in the new 0’s so that even though you may encounter from frustrating scenarios with players of all skill levels, if they die you can keep on going without waiting for them to run back and without fear of the timer giving you a bad score.

In the old system I’m guilty of bailing on some +10’s halfway through out of sheer frustrating and not wanting my IO affected… but I really honestly would have stayed in many of them that weren’t that bad had there been no negative consequence for not timing it.

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Mythic dungeons being the equivalent of current Mythic Keystone Level 8 to 10 is not going to be a lot when you realize there are still no affixes in Mythic dungeons, even after these changes.

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Not to mention just the fact that you have no tyrannical or fortified up to +10 difficulty and no timer just means that it’s going to be far, far less frustrating even if you have underskilled players that somehow make it into the pre organized group.

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Had a chat with friends about this earlier today. Really positive sentiments all round.

It is very good they recognised that there is an issue with a bloat of key numbers. People usually have an arbitrary number they stick with and this, outside of charitable runs for PuGs/friends etc comes at the general detriment of other players.

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That was a quick delete… Realized you didn’t know what you originally said? :wink:

Yup.

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Seems to be a thin viel of misguided truth by Blizzard.

It’s pretty clear no one asked for it, so why? My guess is to slowly rid their own game of M+. I have theories as to why but these here changes seem to be a push in that direction.

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There will still be a +85%'ish HP/Damage difference between heroic dungeons and M0s based on current scaling that, in theory, they are planning on sticking with.

That is a huge step up even without affixes and will become much more noticable as they move to +2s and have tyranical/fortified

Like I said, this doesn’t really affect me…but this is only going to make M+ less appealing to casual players.

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Plenty of players have asked for something similar to this, myself on many occasions.

I don’t think they are trying to get rid of M+ because it’s repeatable content that keeps people on the hamster wheel. I do think for ONCE they’ve actually given some thought onto what the difficulty and barrier to entry should be for up to medium level gear.

I think another aspect is really just related to dwindling player populations. If you que for heroics 3 or 4 months past an expansion start date… you’re going to be waiting 45 minutes unless you’re a tank or healer. Sometimes as a healer I wait 25 minutes because I’m waiting for a tank to join. This will keep heroics relevant throughout an entire expansion, by funneling EVERYONE low gear and high gear into a place where everyone wants something, namely flighstones. Many, many well geared players just like to run +2’s for easy flighstones when they are bored.

A matchmaking system is going to get plenty of tanks and healers into que’s where they are relevant and needed. In many cases, overgeared tanks and healers at that! I for one, think it’s well thought out (for once).

I also think this puts M+'s more on even footing with raiding when you consider the difficulty level in a normal mode raid, finding players, getting a group together, having a timer and affixes on a +2 seems worth the reward for +12 level gear but all that effort to put together a +5 in the old system just really served no purpose other than “paying your dues to grind your IO higher” the new system eliminates that and lets players grind their mid level gear out so that when they’re ready they can jump into actual low level competitive content with what they need ready outside of an IO score alone.

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Maybe not getting rid of them outright, at least not any time soon. It’s clear to me this is a veiled push for more casual players. Disguising it under Heroic/M0 improvements doesn’t bother me as an M+ player. I’d even go as far as being fine with M+ being removed altogether.

Regardless of their intentions, this game should be more casual friendly. There’s no reason for Mythic raid and M+ (beyond 20) to be a thing outside of an extreme pool of players who can play any other twitch reflex game.

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I think your theory is right only backwards. I don’t think it’s Blizzards push for more casuals. If you read my post thoughtfully you’ll find there are probably a growing percentage of players just like me who used to be competitive but as they age, are no longer as competitive.

I don’t think Blizzard is pushing for more casuals, I think more people who used to be competitive are becoming casuals as they age, have kids, etc.

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Even in a complimentary thread, there has to be that one zinger.

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Good, there’s no noticeable increase from current Heroic to Mythic dungeons. That’s one of the reasons Blizzard stated for why they are making these changes.

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So… older, more competitive players becoming casual. Gotcha.

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I think it will be great for people who only want to do queued content, it won’t really affect the high end m+ crowd, and it will be just kinda awkward for the more casual low end m+ crowd who usually spend a good amount of time in lower keys. Their low m+ gameplay will be replaced with just spamming heroics. I think it will be fine for them, but just awkward and less fun initially