I honestly don’t understand how people ever saw the Titans as anything but villains. People that obsessed with order are never the good guys.
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We’ve known since Wrath that titans weren’t necessarily Good Guys. And have burned entire worlds for less than what azeroth has been through.
They may care. They just don’t care on a personal level about the lives of mere mortals. They look at everything through a For the greater good mentality.
If they have to kill a hundred billion people to defeat the void or any other perceived threat, they will do so in a heart beat
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Yeah, it’s been obvious as a flashing neon sign since Wrath that the Titans would be our enemies one day.
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Since SL.
Yeah, but it provides an idea of how they were originally designed.
Perhaps the writers should use alignment again.
It’s a crutch, but… well…
Because “order” used to mean turning a Venus into an Earth and killing off void/demons.
If it was for the reasons in Wrath rather than the retcon (-> world souls ≠ titans), it wouldn’t be an issue.
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I’m just reminded of the meme.
Titans: We wiped out countless worlds and committed mass genocide because we thought it’d stop the void.
OP: Aw, you’re sweet.
Burning Legion: We wiped out countless worlds and committed mass genocide because we thought it’d stop the void.
OP: Hello? Human Resources!?
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No it didn’t. Azeroth ALWAYS had pre-titan life on it like trolls and Tauren.
World Souls being Titans was something established in the Chronicles which Blizzard confirmed was Titan propaganda.
Not only that but there is a play where being a Thraegar was a status of honor. Which helps establish why Diamond Magni was given respect and was our ticket into Dornogal.
Lesser of two evils is my guess. Plus for the moment they are all sealed away to ensure Sargeras remains imprisoned.
It was also mentioned in Legion. In fact Azeroth herself told Magni that she was a Titan. We see several world souls and guess what, they all turn into Titans. Argus included.
Even Sargeras said Azeroth is a Titan. And he saw what she would look like once matured for a blink and you miss it moment. And that is in the Scepter of Sargeras lore book from the Warlock Order hall.
You know, the same Sargeras that was creating the Burning Legion while Aman’thul and co were dealing with the Old Gods on Azeroth.
I will also say that someone like Danuser, who was not one of the main writers for the Chronicles series should not dictate what the intent of the book series was, nor the ‘perspective’ it had. The only reason why he said that the series was “titan perspective” was because he did not want to be limited to what Metzen and co established with that book series.
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I don’t think trolls and tauren existed during the Elemental Wars and the Black Empire.
They need a habitable planet. And Titans are terraformers.
So maybe they didn’t create them themselves, but at least they created the conditions in which they could emerge.
No. Blizzard sold Chronicle as hard canon. Danuser, who is not the author of Chronicle, retconned it as Titans PoV in 2019.
At least that’s what everyone thinks.
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As much as I like Azeroth getting a bit more characterization by implying she’s been active throughout history granting blessings to her inhabitants, I don’t want this to replace the story of the Curse of Flesh giving the titanforged species free will.
I really liked that bit of lore - the idea that the Old Gods’ plans to weaken their Titan jailers/foes by eroding their ironclad bodies and minds into a form that could be more malleable, more influenced by the whispers… also ended up making independent people who choose of their own free will to oppose the Old Gods. I think it’s far more inspiring and poetic for free will to come from the agents of chaos, as an unintentional gift that the people of Azeroth have made their own in defiance of both their makers and their corrupters.
Unfortunately, I think that this new quest text pretty much cements that free will is now/was always/always now has been (curse you, retcon grammar!) Azeroth’s gift instead.
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I don’t think Azeroth is necessarily bestowing free will. It seems to me more like she has an overriding effect on Cosmic forces that results in free will. At the very least, we’ve seen her capacity to overwrite Void and Order.
If they end up attributing free will to Azeroth, that raises a lot of questions (like, why do other races on other worlds possess it?).
Am I getting your stance on this right?
But seriously, is it really so hard to comprehend that god beings almost as old as the universe itself might have different ideas about the value of individual life than mortals do?
Why do you think that’s less interesting than Aman’thul twirling his mustache and laughing about how he’ll force Azeroth to become a titan?
People who murdered “a million, million lives” are definitely mustache twirling evil. I don’t care what kind of justification or spin they try to put on it.
The Burning Legion had justifications for doing the same thing as well. They were still mustache twirling evil and no one questions that. But with Titans it’s suddenly different because ???
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If a person put a bomb beneath your house, would you accept any explanation for why they had to do it
The Burning Legion sought to eradicate life to deny the Void. The Titans resorting to Re-Origination is a drastic measure to eliminate Void corruption (in our case, to save a Worldsoul from said corruption).
Except it wasn’t just Azeroth they tried to destroy.
Algalon states the titans killed a million-million people. The Titans did it all over the universe. It’s not a 1 off trying to destroy Azeroth to save a world soul.
We don’t know any of the details about those worlds that Algalon references, apart from Re-Origination happening to an unspecified number of places an unspecified number of times. We do know why it was put in place on Azeroth, and that’s enough to highlight that equating The Legion’s goal and The Pantheon’s goal isn’t accurate, even if both outcomes are bad for us.
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They had the same goal: stop the void.
They had the same methods: mass murder
If Algalon is to be taken literally, the titans murdered 1 trillion people. That’s like 125 earths. That’s an obscene number.
We don’t know how many the Legion murdered. So hard to do a direct comparison.
I honestly do not know how anyone playing WoW thought the Titans were anything but evil. Lawful evil is still evil.
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So by your logic anyone who sprays disinfectant is evil because they kill million, millions of bacteria?
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Algalon was clearly referring to sentient life, not bacteria.
But if you’re suggesting the Titans view mortal sentient life as bacteria then that’s another point in the Titans are evil category.
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Let’s say there is a highly contagious plague that takes root in people’s feet.
Group A decides the only recourse is to cut everyone’s feet off.
Group B decides to only amputate when symptoms present to prevent the plague from spreading.
Is Group A and Group B the same?
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