I think you are the one making stuff up, how can your pet ~16% (your pet on single target according to logs, losing a haste buff at times) Be a 25% overall DPS loss… It is more like a percentage of a percentage. … You are completely wrong.
why is a warrior in the hunter forums anyways?
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Again, showing your ignorance.
Frenzy does two things:
- Increase pet haste by 30%.
- Increase Hunter & pet crit by 3% (assuming talented into it).
It stacks three times, so that is 90% haste to our pets and 9% crit to the hunter and pet.
My pet makes up about 55% of my overall damage, so if it loses 90% haste and 9% crit, it will do about half it’s normal damage.
That is the penalty for letting Frenzy stacks fall off.
Now tell me more about how Frenzy is ‘a percentage of a percentage’?
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You are making the assumption that Barbed shot is never cast to to arrive at your conclusion. In the top Oracle log for example, the pet accounts for 14.99% of damage and sure I didn’t mention the crit.
And even then I dont know how you arrive at a pet doing 55% of your damage unless you are counting kill command here in a 100% AOE situation (beast cleave)… and in an AOE situation I did specifically say it becomes more important.
But please continue the ad-hominem attacks, its a good look.
Actually, this is pretty consistent with being a BM hunter. If you don’t consistently raid with a bm hunter just check skada or recount the next time you do a world boss or something. Very rarely will a bm hunter do more than 50% of the damage on logs.
Edit: take Yahj of A52, a top parsing bm hunter, on dausegne for example. Warcraftlogs even helpfully breaks it down: Yahj did 46.41% of his/her own damage on mythic oracle. Their primary pet Ankha did 28.35%, their secondary pet Magria did 22.55%.
5 Likes
Let’s look at the following breakout of damage?
Top Oracle fight:
Kill Command: 28.42%
Cobra Shot: 16.36%
Pet: 14.99%
Barbed Shot: 7.89%
2nd pet: 7.89%
I guess you can technically say Kill command is the “pet”. Is kill command affected by the attack speed Frenzy buff (aside from crit?) I don’t know.
First of all, Kill Command is still affected by the 9% loss to crit if Frenzy stacks aren’t up. Everything else the pet does is affected by the haste component.
According to my logs on a single target fight:
- Melee(First Pet) - 10.7%
- Melee(Second Pet) - 9.9%
- Smack(First Pet) - 7.7%
That is 28.3% damage of non-KC pet damage on a single target fight.
Losing 90% haste would be about 13% DPS loss right off the top.
Then we factor in the lost Focus regen from 90% haste. That is difficult to quantify, but would be another couple percent off the top.
Then we factor in the lost 9% crit for both the Hunter and the Pet, which would likely be another 5% DPS loss.
So, on single target, I immediately lose at least 20% of my DPS if Frenzy stacks drop. More in AoE/Cleave fights.
Single target logs with Kill Command. In addition to the numbers given above:
- Kill Command(First Pet) - 13.9%
- Kill Command(Second Pet) - 13.2%
That is 27.1% just from Kill Command, because I have a two piece set bonus. Add that to the 28.3% from other pet damage and we get 55.4%.
Your 14.99% number either didn’t come from a BM Hunter or they have very low Mastery and aren’t using macros to overcome poor pet AI.
Saying you’re ignorant of the spec you’re speaking of isn’t an ad hominem attack. Better luck next time.
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And let’s look at the following breakout of damage on the main log page; the Korean player I suspect we’re both discussing did 5.36m damage to Dausegne. Their actual player character did 47.68%, their first pet did 27.77%, their second pet did 21.78%, and a forth ability I guess was probably a trinket (apologies, I don’t read Korean) did 2.77%.
Kill command, as well as all the pet special abilities and pet white damage, are affected by crit. Pet focus regen (allowing it to cast more abilities like claw, smack etc) and white damage are affected by the haste.
You realize “Pet” and “2nd pet” are cumulative, right? Even your own data shows almost 23% from pet melee alone. That doesn’t include claw/smack/bite data either.
Of all the Hunters on this forum, Cog is not the Hunter to engage in debate over the viability, difficulty, and complexity of the BM spec. Cog has the numbers to back up every argument, and can elegantly explain everything better than I could ever hope to do. Thanks for being a part of this community.
11 Likes
I should have mentioned I filtered out Korean because I couldn’t read it. I was using the 2nd best log from Yahj.
Apologies, this is the total breakout on Oracle:
Kill Command: 22.82%
Wild Spirits: 15.61%
Pet1 (Includes melee, bestial wrath, claw, Stomp) 15.16%
Cobra Shot: 13.73%
Barbed Shot: 7.91%
Pet2 Melee: 7.5%
Auto Shot: 6.47%
Trinket1: 2.69%
Kill Shot: 1.7%
Bestial Wrath2: .39%
Shadowcore Oil: .34%
Pet1(15.61%)+Pet2(7.5%)+.(39%) = 23.5% From pet.
Am I Missing something here?
If I cut the pet damage in half, That still wouldn’t amount to anything close to a 25% DPS loss. What would be the uptime of spamming barbed shot be on Frenzy - I’m sure well above 50%?, I dont know. But this is what I meant by it isn’t as important as people think. It definitely would be the difference between a blue/purple parse vs orange.
A hunter in the 75% percentile does about 10,667k dps
A hunter in the 95% percentile does about 11,454k dps
A difference of about ~780DPS. with perfect play. This demonstrates what I mean by hunters do not have much outplay potential. You will see much larger variances with Boomie etc. This is because one mistake, movement or mechanic can be so punishing to other RDPS hence the response to original post
Heaven forbid people play more than one class, but only post on one…
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It’s not just the loss of haste. It’s the loss of crit as well - for both the pet and the Hunter.
Additionally, Bite/Claw/Smack are highly dependent on that haste. They have a 3 second cooldown, but do 100% extra damage and cost 100% more Focus if the pet has more than 50 focus. Frenzy ensures pets are regenerating Frenzy fast enough to take advantage of that bonus.
Also, I said losing stacks of Frenzy results in an immediate loss of DPS, which needs to be built back up. I never said it was a total loss for the entire fight.
As far as the uptime of spamming Barbed Shot and not following a rotation, I’ve seen some parses with uptimes of ~20%.
Right now is a bad time to make those types of conclusions. Tier bonuses are wildly different between specs. To the best of my knowledge, the Boomie tier set is about 23-25% dps increase. That will result in a wide variety of parses between those with no tier, those with 2pc and those with 4pc.
BM tier set, on the other hand, is about a 11-13% dps increase. So the difference between those with no tier, 2pc and 4pc will be much smaller.
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I think what we all need to do is just play survival.
1 Like
ahh it “must be the gear” gotcha
except it isn’t… just look at fire mages.
Well, that is more likely than “boomie is hard”.
I’m guessing your main is a boomie, since you keep bring it up as an example. I play a Boomie as well, and while it’s an entirely subjective metric, I don’t think it’s any more difficult to play than BM, but it comes with much more utility.
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I have a boomie alt but main a Spriest. - I originally cited them because the venthyr ability was a good example.
fury warrior is recomended for beginners to bro lol
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much prefer demon hunter.
It’s gonna get nerfed hard. Watch.