Without going into details because the argument about how they would get the data to justify this system is useless now that it’s already coming:
Easy data points are quantity of people leaving keys, frequency of individuals leaving, time remaining when they leave, number of deaths when they leave, dungeon completion status when they leave.
All of those can pretty easily paint a decent picture about the scope of the problem. Combined with a low risk implementation, what’s the problem?
This was one of my first thoughts, if nothing else the vote kick will open up discussions. And possibly even educate people.
In the example above 2 people figured the key wasn’t time able so they just left, the tank was upset and confused. Now if the vote kick option was around they would have been forced to talk to him… the horror… and explain “hey man the time is running out sorry we’re done.”
Would it have have made him feel better, maybe or maybe not. But opening up talks isn’t a bad thing
I thought 99% of cases where someone leaves (usually after a fail/wipe) it’s assumed that it was done so because they thought the key wasn’t going to be timed…open up talks so that every conversation goes, “the key isn’t going to be timed”?..and also taking up more time making timing it even less likely.
I still don’t see who this “scarlet letter,” hurts and no one can tell me. It doesn’t actually ban you it just says you leave keys.
If someone gets the mark then maybe a group leader will ask why they leave a lot then they can explain it to them. Then the group leader decides if they wanna risk inviting them.
Potentially nobody. It could turn out to be the case that the whole system is ignored and nearly everyone has it…who knows. It could even have the opposite effect where people who don’t have it are viewed as worse players.
I’m not a M+ player but the solution to this is really simple you vote to disband the group if people vote no you just start body pulling everything around you until they vote yes 
It will hurt DPS mostly and maybe healers sometimes. Never tanks. When you’re listing a key it will be easy to skip dps with the Scarlet L. Tanks and healers will have an easier time ignoring it. Although it depends on how many times you have to leave to get marked. If it’s upwards of 20 keys a week then it will be harder to ignore. If you leave 20 keys a week that the rest of the group wanted to finish then I probably wouldn’t invite you to my key.
A couple of things, first it doesn’t matter if it takes up more time as it seems multiple people already feel the key won’t be timed. I don’t expect the one guy to convince them to try to time it anyways but again conversation in an mmo is ok.
If you don’t have 30 seconds to tell someone why you’re leaving then just leave and take the mark. No big deal.
Second, I would disagree that 99% of the time people leave it’s because they know it won’t be time. Especially in low keys people leaving if someone misses a kick, heck I see people get hit by a cone in trash and get so embarrassing that they instantly leave out of shame. It’s wild down in the 2-8 range
The biggest solution to all of this is simply for the leader and the group to properly communicate and agree to all expectations before the run starts. If a run is advertised as ‘Timed’ then expect to reevaluate things any time there’s a setback, if the run is advertised as ‘Completion’ then expect to stay past the timer if necessary, and if neither is advertised then ask the leader what the plan is when you join.
I do a lot of keys in that range and I don’t see it…and I’ve done a lot of keys in that range on every role. Nearly every time I see someone leaving it’s after a major error like a full wipe or chain deaths. People leaving after missing a kick or getting hit by a frontal? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that.
The current culture/etiquette is that “timed” is assumed unless otherwise stated…especially in a 12 or higher.
So he’s got a lot to learn about running the content he’s attempting to run. Even if he cool breeze playing he should at least know which way the wind blows? Ya dig?
Yes, but it also doesn’t hurt for everyone to talk for 30 seconds before slamming the key in. Or while headed to the dungeon.
“Hey guys we’re just doing this for timed right?”
“Yep, also I’m going to start pulling with the left 3 packs and pop CDs. Lust on second and third boss please.”
“Okay cool let’s go.”
See how simple that is, but for some reason players would prefer no talking or chatting whatsoever and then ranting when something happens they didn’t expect.
You know what they say about assumptions, right? But regardless I’ve been in plenty of ‘Completion’ runs where someone who didn’t bother reading what they were applying to left at the first hint of trouble, those are the kind of situations that make a deserter system necessary.
Also a lot of people join completion runs knowing they’ll drop if it’s not timed.
But they also know they won’t get invited if they’re honest so they lie and say completion is cool with them.
Communication in general is usually positive like your 2nd example, but honestly if someone said, “Hey guys we’re just doing this for timed right?” It would strike me as a very odd thing to say. I don’t think I would boot them for it, but it would make me have doubts because I would wonder if they have done m+ enough to know that is expected.
For completion runs it doesn’t hurt to restate/confirm it’s for completion because that’s a departure from the norm.
Why are you getting so worked up over this? To get flagged you’ll have to leave multiple keys when others wanted to continue. How often do you want to leave a key when others don’t? THAT is what is rare. You’re fine to occasionally leave a key as long as you’re completing (or not leaving without the vote) most of yours. If you don’t have bad intentions, this won’t affect you.
I have made two of them. So you’re either ignoring the points or don’t know what you’re talking about
You’ve made two arguments, yes. But the modifier “halfway decent” is the threshold you didn’t meet.
So, the leaver problem doesn’t exist, or it’s rare, but these 29462492 problems with the system won’t be rare or non-existant?