I did add the quote above with Tyrande saying she still has the powers.
She just will use them for renewal instead of destruction
2 Likes
The only thing that signified was choosing “renewal” over vengeance. Renewal that still requires the NW power in some form.
Anyway, see Ferlion’s quote above
3 Likes
The Night Warrior power is a path of vengeance and destruction, choosing renewal meant that she had turned away from the Night Walker path.
Yeah, Jaina kills tons of Mawsworn as well as the player killing tons of useless maw soldiers as well, they aren’t important and they are very weak. We even kill important higher ups, not just the grunt soldiers the night warrior kills. They have never shown that the night warrior power is actual powerful, and they have shown the plotline for the night warrior was entirely pointless as it didn’t impact the plot at all. You could literally remove Tyrande from Shadowlands and everything would play out the same, even her fight against Sylvanas was pointless, since Sylvanas was just the distraction so anduin could grab the sigil.
Again I’ll ask, if they night warrior power is even useful at all, why is it not being used against the Jailer? There hasn’t been a demonstration of this being even a useful power up. What is even the point of this plotline?
9 Likes
She is still the Night Warrior. Her title is the same.
(Play at 5 seconds in)
2 Likes
Because Blizzard never has main lore characters take out the end boss or use their powers to impede them until after you’ve fought them
That ruins player fantasy. The boss is there for you to fight.
1 Like
The latter did happen somewhat with Thrall vs Garrosh in SoO. Which happens before we fight Garrosh.
I wonder if she is saying it’s a much weaker version of the rather useless power up. She says it “no longer threatens to tear me asunder”, so it could be some of Elune’s power but just a fraction of what it was, something she could handle.
What do you mean? The player is essentially support for the lore characters to take out the main bad guy. Just look at Illidan or Onyxia. Tyrande doesn’t even have to “take out” the jailer, she could be helping in literally any way, but she is absent yet again, just as she was absent in 8.2, 8.3, most of 9.0 and in 9.1 until the sylvanas fight, and then absent again in 9.2.
3 Likes
We fought Garrosh in SoO.
You are right, mind. But his stint as the big bad was done by that point
Thanks captain, you can clearly see that I said that in my post.
You said there was no example of an important lore character either defeating or at least attempting to impede an end game boss before we fight them. As those only happen afterwards.
3 Likes
Ahh, I misread. I was thinking you were talking about the WoD cinematic.
The Arbiter actually cannot judge Sylvanasas as she is, because she isn’t actually dead-dead. Being undead means you are still a tiny bit alive, and thus unable to be judged until the force that binds you to mortality is severed.
There is some indication in the data we have that there will be some sort of trial by combat Vs. Tyrande. Given Sylvanas has been totally disempowered, and Tyrande remains the Avatar of Elune… well. It should go as well for Sylvanas as Saurfang vs. Sylvanas did for Saurfang.
This cinematic, and this thread just prove beyond a shadow of a doubt three things:
- Sylvanas is the most horribly written, cancerous, problematic and disgusting character in the Warcraft franchise, like by a longshot and honestly a top 100 for absolute worst characters ever written in fiction.
Now when I say ‘worst’ I don’t mean ‘has done the worst sins imaginable’, I mean ‘the fact they were written in the first place is a sin’ or to be fair in Sylvanas’s case, how they have been written recently but nevertheless overall. Let me make one thing clear, there’s nothing new or inherently wrong with hating characters in fiction and oftentimes it’s a sign of how well written they are, this is not the case.
I’m gonna use a sports team analogy to try and illustrate my point. Now imagine you hate a sports team because they are rivals to yours, maybe they come from a neighbouring state, maybe you don’t like the politics or personalities of some of their players and ofcourse despite how much you want your team to beat theirs they either seem evenly matched or maybe they are slightly or just flat out superior to your team, who knows. Despite all of this however you have to admit it is exciting to watch games between their team and your favourite team and despite whatever hangups you might have with the players themselves you have to admit objectively speaking they aren’t ‘bad’ people you just prefer your own teams’s players and that their existance is overall a good thing for the game you love as your team needs conflict so the game can happen in the first place. That team would be an example of a ‘bad character who is written well’.
That is not Sylvanas, Sylvanas is a ‘horrible character who is written even worse somehow’.
Using the previously mentioned analogy, Sylvanas would be the team who constantly cheats, their players are the worst pieces of Human garbage imaginable, maybe one of them constantly posts on twitter how all the horrible recent events in the world are because gay people exist, or maybe one of them constantly gets accused of sexual assault but he always gets off scot free somehow. Not only do they cheat and get away with it, you get the feeling they have bribed the refs so you feel the whole game is rigged. When they win you don’t feel temporary disappointment that your team couldn’t beat theirs, you feel permanent disgust that they are basically cheating and getting away with it. When they finally lose you don’t feel joy, you feel pissed off and tired because they’ve ruined the sport you love so hard by now it barely feels like a victory, or maybe they didn’t even lose, maybe the game had to be cancelled at the last second despite your team crushing them because of some contrived reason and there won’t be a rematch because they all got signed off for another team or even another sport and make double the money they were already making, so even they lost they technically still won.
Sylvanas as a character throughout BFA and Shadowlands…I don’t know the right English word to describe how horribly written and executed she is because we use language to describe objects, thoughts and ideas that either exist or we can conceive of but the utterly banality of this character is so staggering that I feel even the smartest linguists in the world would struggle to come up with a word that gives justice to describing her as a character. It’s just that her whole character seems to be a big middle finger to fans of this game, her character written like a typical mary sue, who also does horrendous actions and never faces any form of punishment for it except for ‘feeling bad’.
- Sylvanas fans are utterly toxic, hypocritical and deserving of all the hate they get
Sylvanas fans all whining that is isn’t fair that fans of Night Elves, Worgen, Undead and others all want her permanently gone from the story, as if one badly written character’s story is equal to multiple other races…while at the same time cheering that Arthas is permanently removed despite him being a MASSIVELY more popular character.
They also so irritatingly smug about their horrid predictions about Sylvanas not leaving the story or facing any sort of actual punishment coming true even though absolutely no-one was arguing with them and just as convinced this was going to happen yet wonder why everyone on this forum hates their guts. I honestly hope when the final Sylvanas cinematic is released and every poster who said that it would be utterly abysmal and the most insulting and hated cinematic in the game are proven right and Sylvanas fans are driven from these forums.
- Blizzard is completely out of touch with their fans and will jeopardize the story out of pettiness and spite.
After BFA pretty much everyone who isn’t a Sylvanas-tard has agreed on one thing, ‘For the love of God no more Sylvanas’, no-one wants to see her unless it’s to get rid of her for good. Then with the Shadowlands trailers, they tease Arthas and Garrosh appearing in the Shadowlands, villains who are universally more tolerated and giving them hope we’ll be able to see more of them again. So what do Blizzard do, they introduce them for the sole purpose of permanently obliterating them so we have more room for Sylvanas and nipple-Thanos, as if to say, “You want more villians who have depth and character? You think you do but you don’t, we tell you what you want to see more of”.
Shadowlands is an expansion people thought would never happen, but were actually excited to hear about because it is the perfect chance to meet characters we either knew in life but were killed so now can get their perspective on how that changed them, or meet characters we have never met but have always wondered about because of their significance in the lore. So what does Blizzard do, fill the expansion with a character we’ve never heard about and a character we are sick of seeing.
10 Likes
Woah there. Not saying you are entirely wrong or anything but…
5 Likes
She’s Night Warrior by title only now.
If she still had the full Night Warrior power, she’d be dead by now. That was the whole point of the quest chain to save her.
Per the Night Fae campaign, Tyrande wasn’t drained of her power; it was spread among past Night Warriors. She’s still empowered (spread, not drained), but not as much as before.
One has to wonder what kind of people find Arthas popular. His entire history is pretty much an extension of his youthful personality as an entitled brat who seldom listened to anyone. Were you one of those whose fantasy was that Arthas would redeem himself by becoming Sylvannas’ eternal torturer?
5 Likes
And he also claimed that Teretha Foxton deserves the Maw for daring to help Thrall.
Ikaar is the embodiment of being a cancer on this forum
11 Likes
She flat out says she has the power still
2 Likes
You’re gonna have to forgive me because any relevant quests I did about this were a year ago. Where? Where is he horrified by what he did specifically to Arthas?
And furthermore, I don’t care. The diatribe at the end is the majority of the problem here. Where the subtextual reading is that Blizzard is telling us to forget about Arthas’s legacy.
The way this is framed, is that this is justice to Arthas’s story. This is justice, this is what he deserves. This isn’t framed as a tragedy of fate.
The difference being that Arthas’s responsibility leads him to disintegrate from reality, and be told to be forgotten while Sylvanas’s is that she wasn’t really ever that bad because of the soul split. So all this posturing about how Sylvanas is “responsible”, it means actually nothing for her to say “I feel bad about what I did”.
Arthas was literally being nudged by psychic energies. Ner’zhul was reaching his consciousness out all over the world by that point, and had dominated a lot of Northrend in a similar way. If he’s being nudged towards this path, and manipulated into it, no argument about libertarian free will makes sense either. Because Arthas would’ve had to have been aware of the forces arrayed against him and how to stop it. And no, Medivh coming to him and vaguely telling him to leave to a land he’s never heard about doesn’t count as actually knowing what the hell is going on.
The majority of the awful stuff Arthas did was after he took up Frostmourne. Most of what Arthas did before then was not knowing the ultimate forces that were controlling his fate.
If you want to make that “He could’ve chosen differently” argument you have to demonstrate how he could’ve possibly known the true origins of the scourge, the true nature of domination magic, and the ramifications his choices would actually have. Anything else is post hoc rationalization. I know the writers want to frame this as Arthas is solely responsible, but that doesn’t make any amount of sense under the slimmest amount of scrutiny.
11 Likes