New 60 Warrior that went prot, encountering issues

So I hit 60, and instantly re-specced to PRot, simply because I had no idea how to tank, and wanted to learn slowly. Fury seemed like a lot of twitch gaming. Also, gear dependent. My first tanking experience was Mara, and man did I not have a great time. Aside from me being slow as dog poop, I couldn’t seem to find a consistent pull rhythm. I was constantly losing threat to the level 54 fury warrior, or to the healer. I never tanked in classic before this week, and its obvious that just reading forums and watching more experienced tanks aren’t cutting it. We made it through Mara in three hours, no wipes, but it was hairy around the area with plants that spawn adds.

IS fury tanking easier for newbs? I fully admit I’m not gods gift to the keys, but I thought healing was difficult, this is like herding ADHD cats.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice/punch in the arm.

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Well, in the most simplified sense, more damage = more threat, so fury/prot allows your group to be stupider/faster because you are able to put more threat out.

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Its about the talents, but when you’re low on gear you need to know when to equip a shield and when to DW.

What you will not be doing is sitting in zerker stance, you first dont need to and second your healer will despise you. Defensive stance and Battle depending on situation. Read about it or even watch some videos of raid tanking. Pay attention to stance changes… There are times for zerker stance, but its also specific so learn about that.

Warrior tanking is actually really cool, and it can be as complex or as simple as you like, but better tanks do more stuff, keep the boss steady so the zugs can do their job and also important…, dont take a ton of unnecessary damage.

There is so much you can learn about vanilla tanking and positively no way to put all that here. Dont be put off by it, instead learn and do well.

OH, one last thing., dont Q into BG’s as Prot unless you are in AV and specifically are going to be tanking bosses and are certain that you can hold threat.

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Hit stuff + get hit = more rage

Tanking is more or less just learning the pulls.
Use Demo shout to get all the mobs on you before spamming Cleaves/Sunders.
Opening with Whirlwind isn’t a terrible idea before swapping back to Defensive stance.

Defensive stance gives more threat than the other two stances.
You can dance around(if you have Tactical mastery) but don’t stay in the other two stances for more than on GCD.
Basically pop in, use an ability like Mocking Blow in Arms and pop back to defensive stance.

Defiance is the most important talent for tanking regardless of your tank spec.
If you don’t have defiance you’re not as threaty.

Use this macro, it’s a simple sunder armor macro.
Lets you mouseover mobs instead of tab targeting and uses Sunder on your primary target otherwise.
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][]Sunder Armor

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Tanking well requires an understanding of the basics and applying that to more complex scenarios.

If you really want to learn how to tank, I’d suggest starting from the beginning.

Think of every player in the party as having an “aura” of threat. Just “existing” - players have a zone around them that generates aggro. Think of this zone as about a 25 yard radius around the player that grows and shrinks relative to the player’s level disparity vs hostile mobs.

Every mob has a threat table. It starts blank. Generally, you want to be first on that table. Not just the first name that pops up, but the top of the threat list.

Every “buff” you or your party makes causes threat, but that threat can only be applied to mobs if they are “aggroed” to you or your party.

Why is this important?

From the moment of initial aggro, every decision you and your party makes will make your job easier or more difficult depending on the order of operations.

Being the puller puts you on the list! However, any action your party makes will decide how long you stay at the top.

If your healer casts a spell like a buff/heal, then that action will supersede your flimsy initial aggro.

Ideally, you would be able to charge or have rage left from a previous pull to take an action. Let’s assume that’s not the case, and you’re starting from 0 rage and you just pulled the mobs; and your healer just cast a big heal right on you. (This sets you at a disadvantage, but you can still overcome it.)

Make sure you’re in defensive stance. Then, pop bloodrage. This buff will immediately cause an aura effect that generates threat. How does it generate threat? For every point of rage you generate 5 threat. 10 rage initially = 50 threat. 10 threat over the duration = 50 threat. So 100 threat + defensive stance modifier (threat * 1.3) = 130 threat.

Use battle shout! It generates threat too. Significantly more than demoralizing shout if everyone in the party receives the buff. That being said, you want to demo shout once to get the debuff applied.

Have your target ready. Let your party know ahead of time which mob to focus on.
/script SetRaidTarget(“target”,8);

That will set Skull on the kill target. I won’t go too deep into prioritizing kill targets, but you want to think of which mob represents the most danger to the success of the pull. Typically, a healer mob or one that applies CC (polymorph or fear affects.) In some cases, it is better to simply use your own party’s CC to take the mob out of the picture until it is optimal time to deal with it.

“Which buttons should I press”?

First of all, understand that rage is precious in the first moments of the pull. You want the most bang for the buck. If prot: shield slam is probably the best use of rage for initial burst threat. However, a quick shield block into Revenge is also excellent threat. (And if talented, a stun)!

You want to macro /startattack into your offensive abilities.
#showtooltip Revenge
/startattack
/cast Revenge

“What about Sunder Armor”?
You want to use it. You want to use it a lot. Not only does it provide good threat, but it also increases the physical damage the mob takes. Win/Win! This ability (combined with Revenge procs) greatly helps in keeping aggro on all of the mobs you’re facing.

“What about cleave”?
Cleave is fine, but it’s expensive. Only use it if you’re swimming in rage and you’ve already slapped some sunders on the mobs. This isn’t a priority ability. It’s a rage dump.

“What about heroic strike”?
Heroic Strike does provide a good amount of bonus threat, but it too is rage expensive. There are some scenarios where it makes sense to use (swimming in rage or absolutely must land an interrupt.) Why that second part? Heroic Strike is off the GCD. This means that you can hit another ability while it’s queued up. If you’re tanking a heavy-hitting mob, but don’t want to GCD lock yourself, you could opt to Heroic Strike tank for a bit if you know a spell cast is coming. In most 5 man content, you’ll use HS sparingly. There are just so many priorities to deal with that it is not all that important in the big picture. Consider it a raid tanking thing.

“This all sounds great, but I still lose threat.”

Sometimes, your party is fighting against you. Remember that fury warrior? Yeah. If he’s playing aggressively (like he thinks he should) then he’s going to get all the aggro. Why? He’s charging (generating more rage than you), hitting mobs with big openers like whirlwind and getting hit in return. (Causing more rage generation.) Then, he’s probably buffed with improved battle shout overriding your puny buff, and in general just stealing your spotlight.

How to overcome this? Consider the content. Sometimes, it’s okay to let a beefy second warrior have some of the aggro. If he wants it, let him have it. (You spank it, you tank it.) You’ve got a job to do. Stay focused on your role. Use taunt to pull the hard hitters off your newfound offtank. Mocking blow another.
#showtooltip Mocking Blow
/startattack
/cast Battle Stance
/cast Mocking Blow

#showtooltip Taunt
/startattack
/cast Defensive Stance
/cast Taunt

There’s a lot more to cover. (When to use Thunder Clap, when to pull with a ranged weapon, when to charge, etc.)

The main idea is to use your judgement. The terrain is your friend. Learn how to utilize line of sight to your advantage. Always be thinking about patrols, social aggro, and how to conserve rage for the next pull. Be aware of your surroundings. Remember. The party is trying to kill itself. It’s your job to save them.

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Also, think about the layout of your hotkeys.

You want to optimize your keypresses. Think of your most often hit keys and place them where it’s most comfortable to hit. (You’re going to use sunder a lot. Put it on a spammable key.)

Revenge will also be a very frequently hit key. You should at the VERY least hotkey these.

Shield Slam will be a pretty frequently hit ability as well. Think about other capstone talents like Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst. Where would you place those? That’s where you should place Shield Slam. It’s that important. But it’s not spammable! Think of the wrists!

But, Cloudstomper, I’ve got arthritis and small hands, there’s only so much reach.

Don’t worry. Use a mouse. Even a lowly Logitech G502 Hero has enough buttons to facilitate great tanking (and DPSing or Healing.) Of course, you will still want to use your keyboard as well, but think of the alt and ctrl button. You can use those modifier keys in conjunction with your mouse buttons to multiply the functionality of your lowly mouse.

What else is there to know?

As Babe Ruth once said, “Practice, Practice, Practice.” Talent isn’t enough. You need to practice.

I want you to remember this. Everybody sucks at first. Everyone is bad. If you see someone that puts you to shame, just know that he (or she) sucked at first too. What you’re seeing is the culmination of many hours of practice. You can be that good too.

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BShout only gives threat on application not refresh.
It’s 200 threat per party member that it’s applied to so if you’re in a party of 5 and no pets it’s 1000 threat or 0 threat depending on whether or not you’re just resetting the timer.

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Are these just random sequences of events, or are you saying that you respecc’ed prot and started tanking at level 60 in Mara?


Here’s an older post aimed at newer warrior tanks for Classic circa 2019, that may be of some value:

:woman_shrugging:

Thank you for the correction. I honestly forgot about that. I’ll fix the post to reflect that.

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that doesnt mean your tanking though, most fury/prots dont even bother to use defensives of any kind and get crushed

I got you. For dungeon farming, I HIGHLY recommend going arms and picking up a 2 hander. If you’re not sure on the spec, the standard arms pvp spec works just fine. Any time you feel like you’re taking a lot of damage in the dungeon or fighting a boss? Equip a 1h and shield. If you’re just pulling 1 pack at a time and cruising? Keep the 2h on, charge>sweeping strikes>berserker stance>whirlwind>defensive stance.

I did this in 2019 and once I had enough dungeon gear I was comfortably tanking most dungeon bosses with my 2h (a few of the end bosses are really scary though, rivendare in strat and emperor in brd).

The reason we don’t play prot for actual tanking is because ~50% of your talent points in the prot tree don’t do anything for you. Literally after like, the first 11 or 12 points you have to spend another 10 points to reach the next talent that matters, and then Shield Slam sucks at the end. It’s just bad. Fury/prot is the popular raid tank spec because you don’t NEED tactical mastery really in raids. You can function without it.

There IS a prot variant (we called it Impale prot back in the day), roughly 17/3/31 for talents, and you gear like a fury prot warrior (6% hit>crit/stam as much as you can get your hands on). Commonly see people squeezing lionheart helm into the build if they have r14. But it’s generally not worth it. It’s still mostly a raid tank spec and it falls way behind fury/prot for threat gen. Alliance raids might be able to use it thanks to salv but they also have an easier time reaching health thresholds thanks to kings.

The arms build will cover all your dungeon tanking needs.

If you need links to specs or gear setups just let me know, I theorycrafted a TON back in 2019 and still have most of my old gear sets and talent trees saved.

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You’re right. Arms is almost exclusively the best 5 man spec.

A lot of people lack the confidence, because they overestimate how important the shield is to their survival. While it’s true that it helps a good bit against heavy-hitters, that’s not the most important thing.

The most important thing is to live long enough to get healed. As long as you’re in no danger of dying, then added survivability (at the expense of damage) is of almost no value.

The way I look at it is this. The faster enemies die, the less I need to be healed. The faster the pace, the less antsy the DPS get. The less antsy they are the easier it is to control the run.

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Yeah, I hit 60, droped 15 gold, specced to deep prot, and the next night I got into a run as tank in Mara. I bought a cheap green shield and my thrash blade, and tried to run it.

Thanks for all the awesome advice everyone, it’s clear my intent to help my guild was noble, but in practice, I need a lot more time in the oven. I don’t even think it was gear, I was spamming demo shout, and having been raised arms, I had totally forgotten that that thunder smash skill even existed. I need to buy a lot of my upgraded skills also, I’m at level 1 Cleave.

I am currently specced to the IcyVeins Deep Prot Spec, which is 11/5/35

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Yeah, the 2k armor you get from a good shield is ultimately nothing in the grand scheme of things. If you’re that desperate for even a little more armor, armor pots (like stoneshields) will cover much of that value without having to sacrifice offensive capability.

In basically every dungeon scenario, there’s very little in a dungeon that you actually NEED to actively be tanking for things to still be under control. Rogues, other warriors, paladins, shamans, whatever you’re grouped with, as long as it’s not the healer being hit, let them tank it for a second. They’ll live. In most cases they have some sort of cc they can use anyway.

Deep prot is very hard to tank with in Dungeons. Issue is rage generation sucks (too tanky = no rage) and everyone goes full blast now-a-days. There is no wait for tank to get a sunder up, anymore.

That’s why arms w/2h is much easier for dungeons. You open up with sweeping strikes whirlwind for snap aggo then flip to dstance and sunder/cleave anything with low aggro

You can also switch to sword n board mid fight, after the opener, if you need more mitigation. Just works waaay better for dungeons when you master it. Your dps is excellent, as well, so mobs die faster. Effectively 4 dps in the group

The prot tree is really for raids, particularly imp shield block to make you crit/crush immune against high level bosses via shield block

Protection is a fantastic spec for tanking. You have the full toolkit but that also means you have the highest APM among the options to play it well, to Prot’s potential. Concussion Blow, Improved Revenge, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Taunt, so many good options. You basically want DPS Plate with Stamina for Protection. Mitigation gear has its place but that is for very hard hitting raid bosses on progression where tanks dying is what is holding you back.

Arms is probably the easiest of the options for dungeons because you can Sweeping Strikes → Whirlwind → Defensive Stance → Cleave and have threat on most of the mobs right away. The same thing you might have done back in SM works at 60.

The trick(s) with Arms is that as you go higher level in dungeons (55+) there are more times when Charge is a liability and you will need to be able to swap between 2-H and Shield+1-H quickly and will need to do this more often.

Fury Prot you are basically trading away everything in the toolkit to have more single target threat. This makes a lot of sense in raids when tanks usually have one mob/boss they are tanking and the DPS are “parsing”. Any time you are not doing that the spec is not optimal.

Thing is, you can make any Warrior spec work for tanking in dungeons so there isn’t really a correct answer. The one you are the most comfortable with is probably fine and it doesn’t matter if it is the best.

Parting tip: pool rage for the next pull. If the mob(s) are about to die do not spend rage on abilities, save it for the next pull. Picking up a pack with < 10 rage is going to be hard and no spec fixes that.

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if healer was a priest power word shielding you, then may of been not entirely your fault if not, then most likely you.
taunt off cd and being in defensive stance hittin cleave and thunderclap off cd shouldnt have any problem unless its a pet taunting or sham earthshocking/using rockbiter

#1 piece of advice you probably didn’t receive yet is having an add-on like Plater and making it so you can see the name of the enemy’s target above their head. that means you no longer have to target an enemy to see who they are attacking.

you can see as soon as an enemy is not targeting you. if they are targeting a rogue, mage, healer, then prioritize abilities as required.

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If you want to tank dungeons MS/SS 2H is the way to go. If you want to tank raids, fury prot is the way to go. If you want to grief yourself and everyone you play with prot is the way to go.