Yes it buffs it relative to other talents like AC, veneration, etc. As in there is actually more reason to select tyrs over other talents post nerf.
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I think that’s debatable still and might come down to how some of the nerfs are delivered… Ok sure 12% damage nerfs affect those more than the 8% healing nerfs to other stuff but I don’t believe it will double dip (like being 8% healing nerf to the healing effect on top of the damage nerf)…
But regardless I agree with you on that some talents like those you mention need reviewing and tweaking individually but that’s kind of a different issue… The most pressing concern I believe was to address the general balance of the game and quickly bring Holy Paladins more in-line. Sure build diversity is important but not more so than class/spec diversity and that was being threatened since Paladin was so obviously OP.
I guess I’m looking at it from a logical stand-point, if I had to address both the general tunning AND the underperforming talents… Well I know I have to tweak those talents anyways so I think it would make sense to first bring the spec more in-line and then address the underperforming talents now that I have a more clear goal on where the throughput should be.
And I mean reducing the overall impact of Tyr’s against the rest of the kit is something that should eventually be helpful when trying to bring the other talents into relevance.
But I mean maybe I’m naive and those talents stay there forgotten for a while, it’s entirely possible I guess, but idk I feel it would be relatively easy that once balance is a bit better to just adjust the numbers to make those talents relevant again. Or just to nullify the impact of the DPS nerf on those talents is as easy as a % adjustment on the damage to healing conversion.
Im pretty sure it’s double dipping since it’s an aura NERF but I’d be happy to be wrong.
The ideal I would say was fine tuning overperforming abilities like Tyrs, greater judgement, etc etc but this was a quick nerf, the disparity between hpal and other healers was simple too big of a gap and it actually broke the m+ meta even more.
Sure, some abilities (what they did to my AC and Virtue T.T) needs buffing I would agree with you on that 100% but hpal wll be probably still the strongest healer or one of the strongest, but right now priority was to close the gap as quick as possible.
8 percent is really rough, it should have been half that or just nerf Tyr’s deliverance. As usual Blizzard likes to swing the hammer too fast and without much thought of consequence.
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The nerfs seem a bit heavy handed but I guess we’ll wait and see.
I’m more upset that Avenging Crusader is definitely dead now, if it wasn’t already.
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Thanks blizz, I appreciate not having any mana in PVP now. Everyone else will be alive after a minute but my team won’t be.
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To say there was a problem, I think, is universally regarded as true.
I just look at a few fights where:
1/ I died 85% in and still recorded over 100K HPS, and
2/ Equaled the healing of a superior player in superior gear (by 8 ilvls overall) on several others.
That’s a problem. It was a nice problem for sure, but skewed results like this can result in nerfs that go way beyond what happened today. I’m just relieved that the nerfs weren’t worse.
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how could the nurfs be worse? Hpaly when from decent to bad lol to say that paladin was op is just completely unhinged sure it def need a bit of a nurf but like always blizzard overdid it because a bunch of kids were upset that they couldn’t just knock over a Hpaly
still feels really really good to me. I don’t go above M+20 or heroic raid though.
Yeah it’s still very good, it was borderline broken before the nerfs… The nerfs, from what I expected I think were on the lower end of the spectrum but I believe they might be enough so we get away with only that (because in all honestly I think they could have been more severe).
For M+ is easily still “S” tier, not as far ahead as it was pre-nerf but still probably like one tier ahead of the 2nd best… For Raids I think we need a bit more time to tell exactly where it lands but I’m fairly confident it’s also “S” tier.
I definitely think our overall healing is still a-ok. I was really bummed about the damage debuff, but only because I thought with our rework blizzard might have been going back to having healers do as much damage as possible as a normal thing, and it kind of feels like that’s only really something they’re pushing for M+, and even then not very hard.
I don’t know if it’s competitive at all, but I’ve been trying some builds without Tyr’s at all, just super fast and heavy melee build with all the holy shock talents (ALL of them), and it honestly feels like I can’t use HS fast enough, it just refreshes too fast to ever not be available, which I think is amazing with glimmer.
Im talking about pvp
I don’t know about this because I don’t PVP on my Pally except for a few random BGs. As far as raiding was concerned, it was absolutely broken and definitely OP prior to the nerfs.
I’ve gone through 8 bosses now post-nerf in heroic Aberrus and they seem to have come to about a 10-12% reduction in HPS compared with last week. This seems about right when I compare what I’m doing to those with similar ilvls. The feel of the class in PvE and the healing we can do still seems better than prior to the changes.
I also have been trying non tyrs builds in M+. Truthfully I’m not sure how necessary tyrs is in M+ (20-22 key) because when you need that amount of HPS the group is usually dying anyhow lol. Probably still best in raids though I would think.
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I agree I’m not sure how needed tyrs is but at the same time I feel like its nice to pop and then funnel everything into dps once you get max duration unless someone really needs healing.
Tyr’s is definitely extremely powerful, even post-nerf. My issue with it is sometimes I just want to be talented to not cast at all, and you can’t keep it going for max duration on holy shock alone. I knooooow I could talent into yet ANOTHER active ability to get some instant Holy Lights, but at that point I’m putting a lot of extra buttons on my bars just to make up for other buttons I put on my bars. I have tried what you said, just frontloading the whole duration and then coasting for the next 50 seconds, and it definitely works pretty well, but I just don’t like the feel of it. I don’t like how it feels on my fingers to cast (maybe unneeded) hardcast heals just to increase the duration. But I feel like I have to because I’ll be darned if I wait for it to count down super low before extending it.
At the end of the day, all I can really say is I am so thankful that blizzard gave us so many options that all feel powerful in their own way. I’m sure a perfect meta will evolve like it always does, but at the level I play at (heroic raid, never higher than M+20 dungeons) I feel like you have tons of options to just play how you want, with the spells that feel good and you’re comfortable with. I really think they did an amazing job on the abilities and their interactions.
You could castsequence macro Hand of Divinity followed by Tyr’s Deliverance since you should always be using them one after the other.
I’ve been testing it that way actually while also keeping (for now) an independent binding for Tyr’s just in case but so far I haven’t needed it so I’ll probably remove it after this week if I still never need it.
Tyrs shouldn’t be ‘nerfed into the ground’. We finally have a HoT again that also contributes to buffing our st healing and people wanna kill it lmao.
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Because we are forced to take TYR’s due to it buffing single target heals by 25%. All builds take it. Without it you are underperforming. Remove the buff portion and passively increase our single target healing.