Especially when it’s 7 challenges across 36 specs. 
The only way to make that perfectly fair, in that poster’s eyes, is to homogenize all the classes.
Yes, they all should be pretty fairly balanced. It shouldn’t feel like you need to use a particular class you’re unfamiliar with to get a challenge done. Especially not if it turns out it’s true and the class you’re unfamiliar with ends up costing you many less attempts.
Yes. Making this content fair is worth the effort. Because the user base is in freefall. It’s time Blizzard actually tried to make their mess of a games library actually fun.
Video games are code. Code can be adjusted easily. Literally change a value and rebuild or even just change a value in a config file to adjust behavior live.
Life challenges aren’t so easy to “tune away”. Let’s not excuse Blizzard’s lazyness with completely dumb analogies.
Transmog and mounts are the most permanent forms of reward. This content is vastly more rewarding than any form of content that’s merely there for “Player power” that will be invalidated in 2 months with a new patch.
Stop there. You’re correct. Tune the others.
I said nothing of changing classes themselves, stop trolling.
but I found the challenges to be fair because the point was to use cds and abilities reactively to make up for class weakness’. While Arms is allowed to cheat with Crusader that’s not justification to alter things massively when that defeats the point of the challenges. On my warrior I didn’t use Crusader - mostly because I hadn’t thought of it - and the challenge felt good. Same with when I did DH.
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How else do you expect to achieve your idea of “perfect balance” and fairness across 36 specs and 7 challenges?
You might not have directly said it, but that’s the implication my friend. To eliminate any gap, all classes must be the same.
Or we can just deal with the very minimal gap we have currently.
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You’re ignoring the point : the phase where Crusader isn’t a benefit, the intermission. Arms takes 750 damage a tick, Havoc 1500. Both have the same way to heal : go from add to add and kill them to get a bubble. Havoc has half the time to live in that phase as arms. The only recourse is trying to properly aim double fel rush/retreat without being a yard or 2 off. Arms even has much more pixel precise movement if they want to do the fast strat.
Make Havoc take 750 damage per tick during Darkness, same as Arms would be a good start. Lowering Frostbolt/Arcane Barrage damage so that Havoc isn’t also using double Crusader weapon enchants would be another.
No need to alter the classes at all.
Havoc has leech and other healing abilities. Arms does not. This creates an even bigger gap than we had before.
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Sure, but the more “fair” you make it the more homogenized and boring it becomes.
Then go farm your mage tower challenge. All of them are completely doable as is. If you aren’t good enough and need to swap classes or practice a little bit…that’s fine too.
The others are tuned though. You’re just having a big cry because you aren’t very good at DH apparently. There was a DH that responded to you that said P1 was trivial after he practiced a bit, but you just ignored him and continued shouting with your head in the sand “NOT FAIR NEED NERF NOT FAIR NERF PLZ BLIZZ HEPL NERF!”
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I think it exposes people who farmed old content or spent thousands of gold to optimise. There’s no skill in following a guide somebody else made for an advantage in scaled content.
You keep talking about tuning, but never address where the bar needs to be set. Here one person says something, and you retort with a “no you’re wrong I’m right” scenario.
If they did tune it…who are they using as the standard? Is it supposed to be a challenge for you, which may be harder for most other people, and easier for others who’ve already completed it?
Is it supposed to be tuned to be a participation trophy like MT was in Legion in 7.3.5 after we had 2x the health pool and 3x the damage from when it was first released.
Everyone talks about tuning but never where the tuning should be. “It should be a challenge but not be free” - great, it’s a challenge for me, but my challenges may be damn near impossible for someone else. Or what’s a challenge for me is trivial for someone else.
It’s needs to stop being “nerf this” or “it’s unbalanced and needs tuning” without there being a specific bar to set it to.
Tune it to/what for who? That’s what needs to be discussed.
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Which aren’t a factor in Darkness phase. If you actually knew the fight and how Havoc works. Can’t leech and get fragments if there’s nothing to DPS. Actually go log in and try it.
The fights would still play out massively differently on each spec, so that’s just wrong.
I am.
But some are vastly easier than others, which is the whole issue.
No. Just no. When there are clear easier and harder ones and tier lists are being made, it’s not tuned at all, you literally cannot use that word.
He did not in fact say that. That DH already agreed with me in other threads that the Havoc one could use some tuning.
Have you done the Xylem fight? There absolutely is things to dps during the darkness phase. There are plenty of images to kill during that phase. That’s how that fight works.
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What do you mean by Darkness phase. Do you mean p2 where the void dude is out or the Arcane phase? Because Arcane phase certainly wasnt this big of a deal for me.
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How though? You have no way of knowing what people used unless they tell you, because it’s a solo challenge. It actually doesn’t expose them at all…
You are correct that it is easier to complete challenges with better gear. This is a good thing though, as it allows a wider range of players to complete the challenge, with those who need more gear forced to spend more time and gold. It’s a good compromise imo and similar to in Legion where bad players could take the time to wait for Antorus gear.
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He means the arcane phase… with all the images that you can attack.
This phase isn’t even a thing for DH because they can just fel rush immediately to it. They shouldn’t take ANY damage from it.
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This comes down to the person though. I dislike Mages…never played one past level 30 or so. So the Mage challenge would be impossible for me whereas I’d have an easier time with the Resto Shaman challenge for example, because I’m familiar with that class.
Different classes have different abilities and react to situations differently. They’re not meant to be all the same
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Ya thats what I did because the damage doesnt immediately start. There’s a couple seconds to get to the dude if you can react fast enough.
Frost Mage/Prot Paladin is honestly where I set the bar. Those are the ones I felt the most fair, while still retaining some challenge to them.
Just told you. Certainly VDH and Arms are way too easy. I’m not pro-Buffing things, so leave them as is, but the harder ones could be brought back down to the middle.
And that’s very hard to do in a sea of Classic Toons being “nah, it’s fine bro!”.
That’s not what the Arcane phase is in Xylem, lol.
The images you attack is the intermission. Arcane/Frost phases are when the boss is active. He alternates between them.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Idk bro I farmed my 7 for the mount it felt like they did a pretty decent job tuning all of the ones I did.
Bro, there isn’t anything to debate. All the challenges are pretty reasonably balanced. It sounds like you just think the DH one is way out of bounds because you aren’t a particularly good DH.
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Intermission or arcane phase, the point is you’re talking about the part with the images you can attack. I didn’t have to read a Wowhead guide so I don’t know the names of the phases but I can describe them.
And yet, I’ve killed that same fight, the one you gave up on.
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