Nerf Sylvanas Heroic. getting to P3 takes 10 minutes then it’s a wipe every time. Please Cut out Phase 1 so it takes only 5 minutes to get to that ridiculous phase. thanks.
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We need to buff when you get to p3 for p1 and p2 like they did in the past
This had to be probably my least favourite fight in the entire game, ever… and I don’t think it was just because of its length. Sire Denathrius was also quite long and had lots of phases, but it was probably one of my favourite fights in the game to date!
I think, for me, what it boils down to is that Sylv harshly punished any and all mistakes, in all phases, all the time. It made it very difficult to practice and learn the fight… you pretty much had to perfect each phase before you could reliably move on to the next. Quite often we were hitting the point where we would get to phase 3 (with people dead) but not really be able to spend any time learning it because we would just quickly wipe. Then we’d go back and struggle with phase 2 (or even phase 1 if people made mistakes) and not see phase 3 for another 5-10 attempts where it would be almost brand new again.
Sire was a bit more forgiving, in that you could get to phase 3 with people down and learn the mechanics, you just couldn’t expect to beat the encounter until everybody did it right. It made it feel a lot smoother to progress on though because at least you had an idea of what you were doing.
I hope Blizzard doesn’t design any more fights like this. I like a challenge, but I play in a guild with a mixed variety of skill levels and that fight was more of a slog than an engaging encounter for us.
3 Likes
I think they should remove the numbers of rives cast in p1 or remove that mechanic entirely and for p2 reduce the number of platforms. And for p3 they can remove the number of existing puddles on the platforms or reduce the number of wailing arrows from 3 to 2.
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The fight is basically an idiot check and most of the wipes are in P3.
- People jumping into puddles during Banshee’s Fury wipes the raid.
and
- People not jumping when they get marked with arrows.
The fight is completely different on Mythic. Heroic is so dumbed down it’s not even funny and people still fail at it.
P1 and P2 length could definitely be cut down in terms of time and still have the same overall feel. P2 is probably the worst of the waiting imo, same thing repeated over and over with all don’t stand here mechanics.
P3 is probably very unfriendly to players who don’t have all the helpful addons or don’t have the best reaction time, as I feel a few mechanics happen very quickly and if you’re not pre spread or have good calls darkness can cause an easy wipe.
Fight is too long for sure, doesn’t come across as anything epic or important to me. I would agree the Sire fight was a much better design and overall feel.
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you never fought M’uru? same thing but with fugly timing transitions at around 8min mark.
Can you elaborate on why this was the case? It didn’t feel to us like there was any mechanic really holding us back from moving further in the phase if we had people dead, honestly if anything it gave us more space to spread for scream and veil which made surviving and seeing more of the fight easier.
No, I missed out on the TBC raids. Both times, sadly.
When people died in Phase 1, or early in Phase 2, we didn’t have enough DPS and/or healing to make it past that second last platform in Phase 2. If we did make it into Phase 3 with people down, we would lose more throughout Phase 3, which quickly snowballed.
In all platforms of Phase 3, if anybody picks up one of the purple puddles, we found we would die. That’s all fine as a mechanic, but the problem was that we got to Phase 3 so rarely early on that it took a while drill into people’s heads that they needed to avoid those so the tanks could sweep them up.
Still, we just didn’t see phase 3 a lot for the first 75% of our learning attempts. If we didn’t have the whole raid team up, we didn’t get through that second last platform in time to get the interrupt on the last platform, which is an instant wipe.
Is this just people not asking for dispels then? Ok.
I was wondering if your intentions were genuine, or dismissive. I guess I have my answer!
Sorry, I didn’t mean to come across as either. Just wanted to know what the issue was so I could better understand the perspective, then clarify as that seemed to imply the majority of the ‘Cant continue with people dead’ stuff was on the DPS and healing requirements of phase 2, not the mechanics of phase 3.
The way you phrased it in your previous post came across as pretty dismissive. It was the “Ok.” that really gave that impression. If this was not your intention, I’ll accept that.
The core of our struggle was getting people to stay alive during phase 1 and phase 2. None of the phases were really all that bad, mechanically, but losing people in one meant that we couldn’t progress to the next, or get far enough in the next to meaningfully learn things. There was also a large amount of time between pull and phase 3 start.
I don’t think any of the mechanics in any of the phases were over the top, it’s just that the fight was so long and so unforgiving. It’s 100% a personal responsibility thing… if you do your job and avoid the mechanics, you survive and move on so you can learn the next bit, but rarely does a fight (at the Heroic level) punish the entire raid so hard for one person’s mistake.
It’s normal to not be able to complete a fight if your team isn’t up because you didn’t meet the DPS requirements, but this fight had 3 of those DPS checks, one in each phase. In Phase 1, if you didn’t push hard enough you got extra chains that compounded healer mana issues. In Phase 2, if you didn’t push hard enough, you didn’t clear the platform in time and missed the interrupt on the next. In Phase 3, you just had to kill her before you ran out of platforms.
It may also be that our guild is very much on the line of those DPS requirements. We have a varied mix of skill levels. Some people do very good DPS, some people don’t. This is the first fight in a long, long time that has given us this kind of struggle.
We wiped just as much on Sire Denathrius, but the bulk of those attempts were spent learning Phase 3 and getting everybody to execute perfectly so we had enough DPS up to kill him before the room filled up. This was fine though because we could spend our efforts learning the whole fight. For Sylv, I’d say maybe 20% of our overall attempts even made it to Phase 3. Of those phase 3 attempts, a handful saw the 3rd platform.
So it was like smashing your face against a wall just to learn the mechanics and then, once you finally got there, you win. I just did not enjoy it.
Ye re reading that it seems weird, I think for some reason I thought I hadn’t hit the char count when I clearly had, and the . was my phone.
The fight definitely has a lot of flaws on heroic, especially with p2 being as much of a slog as it is.
It’s also the first heroic boss in quite a while that encourages / expects the raid to have separate offensive CDs assigned for specific moments (Add waves in p2, chains in p1) instead of just playing for maximum overall DPS.
I don’t necessarily think that sort of thinking should be relegated to mythic, but it being the first time it’s been a part of an encounter in this way for a while means the impact doesn’t surprise me.
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Rive and pretty much all of P2 are the biggest offenders on this fight. P2 is actually interesting on Mythic, but all but puts you to sleep on Heroic with how long it is.
As stated a few times in this thread there’s nothing outrageously horrible in terms of mechanics in any of the phases. Honestly I think P2 would just be better on Heroic if it used the same splits as Mythic, but just a nerfed version.
As much as I’d love phase 1 being shorter, it would break cooldown timings for Mythic. Heroic should be an absolute joke now, but Mythic is still a very heavy execution fight.
The problem with the fight isn’t really the length or the requirement not to screw up. Plenty of fights are long or have hard dps checks.
The first problem is RNG. Between the targetting of darkness and placement of pools each attempt can be totally different from the others.
The other problem is that the fight gets exponentially harder and harder, so you end up with most of your attempts failing right at the last platform. Which just saps the spirit cause you don’t feel like you’re progressing or getting better at the fight.
Darkness rng is only a thing if you let it be a thing. On mythic you bait the location of every single darkness cast in phase 1 and 2. And then in phase 3 you pre spread before every darkness so that it doesn’t matter who it targets since everyone is in a safe spot and can’t get hit by more than the one that might target them. You could do the same on heroic if you believe rng to be the problem - people just don’t because they find that the organizational burden to do that is not worth it for the length of time heroic boss prog generally lasts.
Pool rng is a thing I guess, but it’s really just on your tanks to manage it and grab them quickly, and on the rest of your raid to not pick up any because healers panic dispelling random players is what causes chaos.
Wiping on the last platform is a lot worse when you’ve committed 13.5 minutes than if you’ve committed 7-8 mins to a pull. In general I do think that long and easy fights with a difficult final phase are annoying, and heroic sylvanas sort of fits into that mold now that gear levels make p1 and p2 trivial (they’re still hard on mythic, but that’s not the topic).
Something else to point out on heroic is the number of players you have. Towards the end, my group had 10 people doing the standard 2/2/6 comp. I won’t go into every detail about each person, but we couldn’t pull it off.
I opted to go with a friend for two of my wins and pug two others and I can point out something very apparent: this fight is exponentially easier with more people. More healers means you have more CDs to hit during P2 when the adds are casting their nonsense. They also can delete the healing absorb on p3 because no matter your roster, it is only ever two people who get it.
Similarly with DPS, on p3 two people are jumping around during arrows. With a 10 man group, that’s a third of your DPS dodging mechanics and being away from the boss. Same thing with darkness. It really sucks having one or two melee sitting on their hands. But with 20 or 30 people? Just CD and heal through it, go ahead and spread that darkness.
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My guild struggled a lot on this boss too and we eventually had to resort to sitting people who couldn’t do the mechanics. Between Darkness, Crushing Dread, Banshee’s Fury, and Wailing Arrow there’s a lot of ways less-skilled players can kill your entire raid.
Heroic sylv is harder than the first three bosses on Mythic. If you have the numbers you can try doing that instead and go back with some better gear.