Aw, is it triggering that I provided raw data and you didn’t?
So why do only 15% of people have all three appearances if it was so easy? You make bad arguments with unverifiable data or sources. You’re absolutely goofy.
I provide armory crawl data.
You provided Wowhead profiles.
My data >>>>> your data.
10 RBG wins.
That’s the opposite of what I said…I completed Aff yesterday. December 24th. When did the hotfixes go live? Can you read at all???
I never said they were “easy”, I said they were comparably hard to release. Again, major reading issues. And you said I did it on the “5 easiest specs”. Are the warlock specs the easiest of their challenges? Or are you conveniently leaving them out?
Optimizing =/= welfare. And it’s laughable that you have the gall to call anything “welfare” in a thread where you’re advocating for nerfing these to 7.3.5 levels when they weren’t even recognizable as challenges anymore.
I can’t keep up with your guy’s argument, but I just want to throw out there that less than 3% of players have the “A Towering Success” achievement if it’s not already stated here.
https://www.dataforazeroth.com/collections/achievements/15309/a-towering-success
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No, you provided an unverified source claiming that’s what they were using.
Except you didn’t provide data. You provided an unverifiable summary.
That has nothing to do with the 3 Mage Tower appearances per class (2 for DH and 4 for Druid). At this point you’re just inserting random things to deflect from the fact you have a fundamentally bad argument. This is transitioning from funny to sad.
Not even close. Prot Paladin is massively easier now than on 7.2 release for instance.
Lazel is the only Prot Paladin to ever finish it on the first spawn of the Tower.
Oh, and it was a stroke of luck he got it, he got saved by the rock at the end :
No, I provided 2 sources of crawl data, MMOC and WoWG both tell you what they do : crawl the armory massively. You decided to look at WoWG’s Ranking compilation source, and thought it applied to their Achievement crawl, that’s your bad.
You’re right, that Fighting with Style achievement is different from all the others.
Many reasons can explain it : most folks are casual and not completionists. Did one, maybe another on an alt, but didn’t bother to do all specs.
Apparently I missed the second one. Go ahead and link it again.
Come on now. These are factors but pretending the difficulty wasn’t one is just silly.
I did 29, some at the tail end. I know from first hand experience. They were easy. Lots of casual have their 36/36 done because of 7.3.5 and the Artifact “overload” mode.
I did 26, some at the tail end. I know from first hand experience. Some were easier than others. They weren’t all easy.
That’s a vague statement with no numerical value- its commonality can’t be verified so it doesn’t indicate anything about the initial claim of the tower being casual-friendly.
Maybe, but the truth remains, at the end of Legion, with WorldofWowgraphs 2019 snapshot, Mage Tower had Normal raid participation levels, if we use Normal raid participation figures from SoO (Flex Mode) as a comparison basis.
That’s is pretty nice completion rate. Very casual friendly.
It’s insane how some of you want to gate keep this casual content away from the casual crowd. And just for some specs. Somehow, it’s fine Fury and Prot Paladins are cake walk, Guardian Druid must remain a triple digit puller.
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I don’t agree that the tuning should be based on the difficulty at the end of Legion. To me the sweet spot would be post Tomb release since the Tower was content released during that Tier and likely tuned baseline around that gear.
Neither do I, that’s a strawman from the lock. He wanted to claim Tower was only relevant as it launched, not as a whole. I just said it was casual content in Legion, it doesn’t have to be super hardcore content now (for some specs, because for others it’s not even that. Which is the most insane thing these guys defend).
I think some need to be looked at so they’re not harder than 7.2 though at the very least. But if any tuning makes sense, it’s around :
Yep. We agree.
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I’ve established thoroughly this is also unverifiable, and therefore unreliable.
Why would we establish this as the basis for what’s casual?
It’s not gatekeeping. We’re opposed to its difficulty being deflated. It’s also not casual content, regardless of how many times you say it. It was never advertised as such in the first place. In fact, it was advertised as requiring mastery of one’s class.
Huh? Vengeance DH needs to be cranked up in a bad way. I can’t speak to the other two.
Guardian Druid is fine though.
You have a knack for making things up to argue against that have no basis in reality. It’s very bizarre.
It’s not unverifiable, they did armory crawls. It’s literally Blizzard’s data from the public API.
Because that’s pretty casual. Flex was even queued, no running to the instance.
It is.
But you’re fine getting your welfare sets on specs that are already deflated. Just not those other specs you didn’t even try yourself!
No, it still needs a 5% Kruul health shave off the top.
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Link the raw data they used.
In your opinion?
See this is what I mean. What are you even talking about? I’m not fine with welfare sets, they need to tune some towers up.
I’m not sure how you derived this number, but it’s more than manageable without a nerf.
The armory.
No, they’re fine as is.
My own personal experience dealing with such encounters.
Unlike you, just because I have mine doesn’t mean I want to keep it from others. Still needs a bit more shaved off the top to be about on par with Prot Paladin.
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Now you’re just being disingenuous. You’re acting on faith that they, an unofficial source, used proper sampling and calculations.
I guess if you don’t know the definition of ‘challenge’ and can’t be bothered to look it up.
So out of thin air, got it.
I don’t want to keep it from others. I want others to earn theirs the same way I had to.
It’s not a Prot Paladin. The Druid kit is more than capable of handling the tower quite comfortably. But, as Blizzard stated was required, you have to master your spec as well as the encounter. That means having proper resource, cooldown, and footing management- which seems to be the biggest point of failure for folks I’ve noticed complaining about it.
Dude, you linked me a Wowhead page that uses their own internal profiles. Also completely faith based if we go by your own argument. And you call me bad faith ?
I know it more than you do yes. I just don’t think these need to be particularly hard. I’d prefer people have fun doing them.
If more than a decade of playing this game at all levels is “out of thin air” then sure. But we both know it ain’t.
That’s literally what “I got mine screw you” means. Just because you had to do an overtuned encounter doesn’t mean everyone should.
It shouldn’t be harder just because the class changes. Blizzard can tune it.
I can play both specs at the same level. Guardian Druid isn’t a complicated spec either. It’s not the spec that’s the problem, it’s the disparity in the DPS levels between both and the fact Kruul’s health is not properly tuned to be relatively equivalent.
But you just want to argue in circles, I’ll leave you be, it’s Christmas after all and I need to go do presents soon.
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You call it a straw man and then go on to explain that it’s not a straw man. Amazing. You brought up 7.3.5 to attempt to justify your ridiculous claim that Mage Tower was some of the most casual content ever released. Your claim falls apart without 7.3.5, yet somehow now I brought it up.
Lol, but out of the other side of your mouth you claim it’s casual friendly. It’s so obnoxious when people will argue contradictory points depending on what is convenient for the argument they’re trying to make…
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It was in 7.2 when it launched too, by design. Blizzard designed it so gear from future patches would nerf it. Heck, everyone knew when it launched in 7.2 that Tomb gear that was just around the corner and already in the data file, would nerf it.
2 things :
1- The Prot Paladin challenge got nerfed after Lazel did it.
2- The current Prot Paladin challenge is easy. Meaning this Tower is not meant to be that 7.2 “hard” that you claim it should be.
Says the guy who’s like “this should be hard like 7.2!” only to then clear all the easy specs. If anything, you’re the one that’s arguing contradictory points.
Mine has always been the same : this used to be casual content, no reason it shouldn’t be casual content now, some specs are fine, bring down the specs that aren’t.
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