We’re getting into the 5th raid people still havent full clear SE and alot of people and guilds are quitting already either nerf the last 2 bosses make it more clearable or start adding the ICC buff for people to clear faster and make bosses drop an additional tier
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A lot of guilds are 8 out of 8 now. It’s ok to have some guilds struggling till you get more gear. I honestly don’t know why classic players want all raid to just be free loot. No one wants to earn anything anymore i guess.
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How many of those are 20man. It’s a 20man raid if you’re 8/8 but bring more than say 25 than they didn’t really clear it.
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369 Guilds have made it 8/8 on 40 man, only 51 on 20 man. compare this to the Balnazzar which has 1,496, on 40 man, and 281 on 20 man, you can CLEARLY see that “a lot of guilds are 8/8 now” is a LOAD OF S**T. 75% of the guilds that went into SE, DON’T 8/8 it, IN 40 MAN. If you go into 20 man? ONLY 18% OF PEOPLE WHO GO IN ON 20 MAN 8/8 IT. “earning it” and fighting against broken bosses are 2 different things.
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only 51 guilds are in 20 man that actually 8/8 out of 281 that fought against Balnazzar in 20 man.
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Is there a middle ground between 75% of 20 man groups cannot clear the raid after a month and brain dead easy raid that just gives you free loot?
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Retail raid tiers last 6 months. I don’t know why Classic players think new raids should last 3 weeks or less. Can you explain the economics on how new raids are supposed to economically viable to produce being consumed at that rate?
Honestly. I’m not even joking. We all agree we want Classic+, can someone explain to me how Classic+ is sustainable at all based on the pace you expect?
This raid needs nerfs. My raid can only do one night a week for a raid time. We only have time to down 5-6/8 bosses. At this rate, we’ll never finish the raid because it’s too hard.
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because we don’t and you’re making up this strawman in your head
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to be fair, retail raids have 4 difficulties, that you can choose from depending on your item level, and your experience playing the game. SE has 1 over-tuned difficulty (on the same level of complexity as some heroic Cata raids), and you’re expecting the more casual playerbase to go into it for the first 5-6 weeks without any REAL progress, and expect to stay? SE and its difficulty level was hardly thought out, and it could’ve been better for EVERYONE.
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I notice this doesn’t answer the question, it deflects and attempts to redirect.
Retail raid tiers last six months. How do you believe you can make a raid like Scarlet Enclave last six months while also letting the lower 25th percentile clear the raid in 4 weeks?
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Different difficulties let the lower 25th percentile clear ‘a version’ of the raid in 4 weeks. Which is what most people were shocked about when SE came out iirc.
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We raided all of vanilla and TBC for a long while. Difficulty isn’t needed, most classic players are content with clearing and improving parses/speedruns/speed kills.
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So are we introducing items with multiple ilvl variants?
I’m fine with that, but there are folk who would argue it’s not very “Classic” to have items come in multiple variants of ilvl. Also don’t Classic Andies whine about Ulduar ? How it’s one of the first times the population dips because bad players can’t attain BIS anymore?
I think you have to make a hard choice at some point and say you can’t make Classic+ for bad players. Bad players need to be treated like tourists who come and go, and build the game around a core of AOTC like content / players.
I don’t know much about how Classic Andies felt during each phase since 2019 since I didn’t play Classic until SoD/Hardcore.
The hard question is what does Blizzard do for the players to make people play the same phase for 6 months since people have been so used to a new phase every few months since 2019. Repeatable endgame content in Retail is solved by the weekly vault, mythic+, and multiple raiding difficulties letting you get the best gear, determined by ilvl. Ilvl does not have a place in ‘my’ version of Classic+.
What do you think Blizzard could do to keep people engaged for 6 months in the same tier without them introducing ilvl?
I must have forgot how every single sod raid so far had gear with different ilvls in the normal and harm modes.
Oh wait….
You are playing a version classic wow. If we wanted aotc style content we would be playing cata or retail.
Catering to aotc raiders without offering a lower difficulty level would have killed retail.
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SoD raids didn’t have to last six months so they didn’t need to create a gear treadmill of lower and higher ilvls. Normal could reward BIS when the tier only needed to last 30% of the runtime of a normal tier (and even then people got tired and people said Sunken Temple lasted too long).
If you think this current SE raid with its current tuning is going to keep people logging in for 6 months, you’re high.
Already seeing guilds imploding left and right. 5/8 a month after release running with 25+ players. Same groups that were clearing nax HM4 for over a month every reset.
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I need receipts.
this is not retail. this is sod.
you are purposing a false choice.
it doesnt have to last 6 months at all.
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