This thread is fake news. Big Essential Oils wants to dominate the MMO market. KEEP THEM OUT!
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Pretty much. Did some tests wondering just ‘what if’ shadow oil beat flametongue.
Each test was done for 5 minutes on the dungoneer training dummy. Each test involved JUST using lava lash (unless otherwise stated) Plus the phantom fire potion.
No gear no imbues no lava lash no potion : 113
No gear flametongue + lava lash = 195
Gear flametongue + lava lash = 492
Gear Windfury + flametongue + lava lash = 575
Gear Stormstrike + Windfury + flametongue + lava lash = 1059-1573
No gear shadow oil + lava lash = 180
Gear shadow oil + lava lash = 449
Gear Windfury + shadow oil + lava lash = 570
Gear Stormstrike + Windfury + shadowoil + lava lash = 984-1204
the potion + oil benefited most with windfury since it seemed windfury procs them. However flametongue still won over the oil. Most likely since our mastery increases fire damage. If it increased shadow damage than it might win but that’s not the case.
Had to do the stomstrike one a few times cause some times cause stormbringer RNG.
So yeah. Our imbues > oils. Dunno why people want to use them.
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Don’t forget to account for the 100% lava lash damage FT gives and also that it procs on every hit, including everything initially hit by crash lightning and wf procs, whereas the oil is a chance to proc. And also FT scales with agi and mastery where the oil is a set amount.
It’s because they want to use them in addition and have zero concept of numbers balance.
It’s two buffs that offer nothing in terms of player choice, gone is Rockbiter and Frostbrand. There was no reason to bring back imbues in this form, it’s now a 30 min buff. Something you have to do every 30 mins with no positives.
It’s the definition of a hindrance buff. I wouldn’t mind it if we could double WF or something imaginative, but alas Blizzard hot fixed that in beta.
except it deals more damage than profession imbues (tests shown above), interacts with talents and legendries that profession imbues can’t due, and lowers the cost of raid supplies for the class.
YOU might see it as a hindrance. There are positives to it.
Oh no, battleshout is a 60 minute buff warriors gotta maintain that do nothing with no possitives. /s
Stop looking at stuff so negatively. There are positives to it.
also 60 minutes not 30.
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There are no positives to the imbue system as it currently stands, it’s lacklustre in its design. If you want to get excited about maintaining a 60 min buff, then by all means, I would of rather seen more player choice and interaction. This system would of been better suited to the passives from BFA which would then of allowed us to play with new consumable content.
This is a pale shadow of what Enhancement imbues use to do.
lmao it’s a sharpening stone for a ridiculously tiny AP boost or a small proc you will never notice
this is hilariously overdramatic, imbues are fine, stop being dumb
If you’re content with a boring system, good for you. I’d of rather seen Rockbiter, Frostbrand, Unleash Elements come back and allowing us to double up our imbues.
you sound like a salty cucumber. Go home
yeah cause the oils and stones are oh so exciting too right?
rockbiter and frostbrand are trash, they were cool at a time when everyone had to make those decisions, now nobody else does and they never will again
the spec could literally passively snare and have rockbiter’s DR up without any imbue required for it and it wouldn’t be any sort of problem for balancing
I never said they were, in fact you say that I’m,
When in reality all I’ve ever said about the consumables was they were basic, my main gripe was about the imbues and how lacklustre they are. Would it have been nice to use some basic consumables? Yes. I’m not orgasming over the thought of using them.
Frostbrand, you mean the art of keeping someone snared is now a decision players refrain from doing?
Rockbiter, having a 5% damage reduction is something that’s trash?
Unleash elements, increasing damage, attack speed?
How about Enhanced Unleash from Draneor? Increasing our movement speed?
This was what the imbue system use to be, was it perfect? No. Could they have used and improved these ideas with the new system, offering players a “meaningful” choice? Of course. To me as it is currently, it’s just boring and they might as well just left them as passives.
Yeah, I’ll stop being dumb and wanting more for my shaman. 
No, neither of them are bad as an effect.
But when they’re part of the imbue system and come at the cost of WF/FT as a combo, that’s stupid, because nobody else has to choose things like “lol just give up literally double dam on LL for a mediocre autoattack snare”. Dropping a GCD to snare is fine, but imbues cannot be reasonably twisted and a more or less permanent choices is way more significant than any other snare in the game.
Like, rogues would light things on fire if they were forced into a choice between deadly/wounding and crippling.
The imbues are fine, they don’t need changed, bringing back rockbiter and frostbrand and forcing Enhance to make the kinds of choices that literally nobody else in the game has to make is dumb.
This spec, players and non-players alike, constantly treat this spec with weird special gloves that nobody else ever gets and there’s no reason for it. It doesn’t make the spec any better, it just makes it unique in a world where unique means poorly functioning.
That’s what I mean by taking these ideas of old and improving them, giving us a meaningful choice. Allow us to use two imbues on a weapon? Allow us to double up FT or WF so we can have WF and FT specs, that works for the talents we get to choose.
There’s so many interesting ideas they could of come up with but instead they decided to just make them a 60 minute hindrance buff. Also on this, I don’t treat them as a buff like Arcane Intellect or Battle Shout, those are social buffs. You can aid your fellow player and bring something to groups, this is a personal buff that offers nothing other then pressing it to make your class work.
The imbues work, as in a sense primal strike works but it’s not interesting game design. Bringing back meaningful choices and options for the player to use is great, especially if they modernise the systems so we don’t have to suffer drasitic loss of damage.
If anything Shamans have been dumbed down expansion after expansion, our tools have been taken left and right by other classes and specs. Why do you think even the top enhance players are saying the move to bring the spec back is great but we’re about 70% there? We use to be better then this, unique doesn’t always mean bad, there’s still improvements to be made.
There is absolutely player interaction with the current imbue system. I agree there is no player choice as we are forced WF/FT and I would agree that I would like Frostbrand back for pvp.
However like I said there is absolutely player interaction with the shaman imbue system. We have conduits, legendries, and talents that augment and alter those imbues so there is interaction with them.
Yes they lack in direct choice in what we can choose, but they are more woven into the class and have choices on how to interact with them. Which is a more when compared to other ‘hindrance’ buffs other classes have that have zero class interaction and is just maintenance.
Edit: I also just wanna point out that rockbiter, even in it’s last inception with 5% damage reduction… was never a choice. It was so trash even with unleash elements that an enhancement would always go WF/FT or in pvp WF/FB. Also rarely in pvp WF/EL back in cata when our offhealing was so good and triggering earth healing was fun and before they made earthliving resto only.
Resto had the choice between earthliving and flametongue but would almost always go earthliving for the small bonus HoT. While elemental never had any choices and always went alchemy oils (till they were removed) and then flametongue.
So you’re agreeing with me now.
That wasn’t my point, my point was they brought back the imbues when they could of just remained passives. It offered nothing other then being a hindrance buff.
Already covered this broadly,
Now there could be other annoying buffs, but that’s going off topic and I’m probably against that too.
I also covered this above, was it perfect? No, but they could of taken the ideas of the past, modernised it and improved it. What we got was a gutted system that offers nothing that passives could of solved. Same with Windfury Totem, make it a aura, it’s annoying.
Agreeing that there is no player choice in what imbues there are doesn’t mean I agree that there is a hindrance
you literally said you wished for more player choice and interaction. There is still interaction with the current imbues. you might ignore it but that’s your choice to. Doesn’t make it that there isn’t any.
Except the imbues add flavor to the class. Something that has been lacking in the in the last few expansions since WoD started to gut everything. Also there are positives into making them imbues over just passives that you ignore that I already pointed out above.
Also topic of windfury totem: Except the aura doesn’t fit the shaman theme. You picked a shaman. Our buffs come in the form of totems. It’s a system design with the class. Is there ways to improve it? Sure. Changing it to just an aura would dumb down and homogenized the classes more. We are not paladins. We do not use auras.
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Because people believe Enh is the worst dps spec and they think imbues will make it better. The problem is they are wrong and Enh is nowhere near the worst.
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It’s not exactly riviting gameplay is it? Especially as they’re more suited to being passives in it’s current form.
Yes I want choice and interaction with the imbue system because the imbue system offers nothing in the way of choice or interaction. You have WF on your Main hand, FT on your offhand, that’s it!
You can try and spin it how you like, I’m talking about the choice of putting a imbue on your weapon, that’s what I’ve always been talking about. I’m not ignoring you, even when they were passives there was talents, etc, etc that took them further but you’re straying from my initial point to fit your argument. We’re talking about the reintroduction of making passives in to weapon buffs.
For example of meaningful choice and interesting interactions, back in beta we were messing around with double WF, that’s what I’m talking about, a choice and guess what? It was really fun making a WF build up, sadly the removed it.
They do, when there’s flavours to choose from. The key letter, flavour(s). I take it when you go to a icecream shop and they offer you vanilla and only vanilla you’re satisfied and think to yourself, “This shop offers real flavours of icecream!”.
Personally I don’t see any positives of maintaining a 60 minute buff over just having a passive in it’s current form.
There’s a reason why they removed long term buffs from totems a very long time ago. It’s similar to the reason they removed searing totem in Shadowlands beta, most people don’t enjoy it.
Totems fit the shamans theme, I agree, but Windfury Totem doesn’t work in it’s current design. If it was like Skyfury Totem where it’s a more powerful short CD and you could drop it at the right time, I’d like it. But having to constantly manage the buff and then it being tied to the legendary Doomwinds, it’s just poor planning imo.
The only reason I see it still existing is because of that legendary, feedback on the forums has been pretty negative towards it.
I don’t see how this is going anyway positive now, we’re going around in circles. I’m talking about how the imbues are lacklustre and offer no real choice. You agree there is no choice but agree imbues add flavour, even if the flavour is WF/FT nothing more, nothing less. I think personally they could of just remained passives so we could interact with shadowlands consumables because they’re nothing but a hindrance buff, you don’t see it as a hindrance buff. 
I agree there is no direct choice in what imbues we can use but there is choice in what we do with the imbues and the depth they have. Do you want doomwinds, hothand, Magmacore, ect? Multiple ways to still customize imbues.