Naxx will shatter casual guilds

I don’t mean to be a doomer - and I know that people said this when AQ40 came out - but I think that Naxx is the straw that will break the camel’s back.

For starters, Naxxramas is an exponentially longer raid. In the sense that it will take dad guilds multiple nights to (maybe) clear it, and it likely won’t get much better timewise for a long time. The meme that casuals need a nap between pulls is partially true; it’s difficult to get them to push when it’s getting later, or after many wipes.

Secondly, the raid is rather intensive consumables-wise. And the more casual you are, the more costly the raid is because the more you die and the longer it takes to clear the more you have to consume. Casuals will likely run out of gold faster than they can farm it, especially considering my previous point.

Then, there’s the learning curve. Naxxramas is commonly accepted as a turning point in WoW raiding. It’s that point in time where encounters become much more than just standing there casting your three-button rotation, and where powering through harder encounters (Sapphiron) with raw DPS isn’t necessarily a viable strategy anymore. We know from previous experience that casual guilds struggle with mechanics, coordination; the (casual) Classic guild I’m in right now still needs constant strategy reminders in AQ40, even though at this point we have dozens of clears. They still make stupid mistakes, some which will be exponentially more costly in Naxxramas.

Finally, there’s the fact that with TBC oh-so obviously over the horizon, there’s just no real point in doing Naxxramas, if not just to experience it.

99.9% of players won’t be aiming for world firsts (where Naxx gear is crucial, as for most classes it can carry you well into T5 content), and it’s unlikely you’ll get a full T3 set’s worth of clears for 40 people before the burnout starts to set in and it becomes more and more difficult to get warm bodies willing to spend the time, effort, and gold into raiding for gear. For many classes, most of the Naxx gear will almost immediately be replaced by gear from heroic dungeons and reputation rewards. While it’s true that some classes get gear that will carry over until T5 and even T6, you still have to convince other people to raid in order to get those items.

To be clear, I’m not saying to quit Classic WoW and that raiding in Naxx is a waste of time. I just don’t think that beyond experiencing the raid purely for fun, there’s just so many hurdles for casuals to overcome that it may not be worth the energy invested. I truly believe this is what will end up breaking up massive parts of the community, and turn Classic WoW into even more of a TBC waiting room than it already is.

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Some guilds sure, they’ll fall apart. Some people will clear once or twice to experience it and park their characters or quit. I do believe far more than we think will clear it to personal bis gear and even gearing alts they’re likely to use/swap to for tbc because we now know the gear is good for a while.

When tbc was announced originally as following vanilla, screen shots and discussion revolved around the idea of gear in hellfire being better than naxx so why bother. Many, myself included saw it as a chance to catch up and reset without spending the time in naxx. Now anyone wanting to raid in tbc will likely continue the grind to filling out their characters imo.

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Good. This isn’t retail where the game holds your hand and makes sure everyone wins and gets to see all the content. If you want to clear naxx, you have to git gud.

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I have been waiting since release to say “I told you so” that naxx won’t be that with today’s average raider capability… I got to say it for MC then BWL then AQ40… Every single raid that has been re released so far people thought were going to be so difficult and guild breaking and then it got flopped over by every remotely competent raiding guild.

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Naxx won’t be a cake walk, but it won’t be a guild breaker either. People will clear it. People will get gear. And people will stand afk in IF/Org wearing said gear.

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I mean AQ40 did break up some casual guilds. BWL did too. There’s always going to be some guilds casual enough to break up on new content. But yes, Naxx will be the biggest guild breaker in vanilla Classic. It’s the most demanding by quite a margin.

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If you’re not competing for world firsts, there’s literally no other point to playing this game than experiencing content.

Retail or classic, you’re here for the experience.

And I know you can’t see my retail account, but I know what chasing firsts is like. It’s not worth it. It just takes SO much away from the game.

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You have a point about the consumes. All guilds should have plans for this.

I think Naxx will cause problems for guilds with underlying issues in general. In even more hardcore guilds people will feel “done” and quit esp after getting their gear.

There are still casual guilds who haven’t cleared AQ40 yet and shouldn’t even try Naxx. They will probably continue where they are.

For sure some people will quit guilds over them not being progressed enough or over the content in general. Still, there is something about still having “progression content” that keeps people raiding with their guildies, even if they are way behind others.

Overall though yes this is “that point” when many guilds will fall apart and some will pick up the people who are left. It’s the cycle of WoW.

Which is not much different from retail where people sit around on their auctionhouse or mythic raid mount near end of season.

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Classic raiding is about on par with normal raids in retail

Although that may be unfair to retail normal raids because they have a ton more mechanics than classic

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I keep reading TBC is around the corner but has anyone an official update outside the multiple choice questionaire from a year ago?

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Icy gets it. Mechanically nothing is hard about naxx. What’s hard is gearing and coordinating 40 people and also getting all the consumables farmed.

Mythic progression in retail vs. classic naxx? Not even close in difficulty.

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Classic raiding is more unforgiving, but is mechanically simplistic compared to retail raiding.

The unforgiving nature is due to consumables and prep-work required outside of raids… including finding and coordinating an extra 15 people. For example, wiping in classic costs a lot more in terms of recovery time and consumables.

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Theres a reason wiping 200 times on retail raid bosses is perfectly normal. Its the far more punishing raid environment.

Classics “challenge” is only in the time investment of the preparation. As for the actual raid content retail is immensely less forgiving

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I did a lot of mythic progression and I really don’t agree.

Normal raids are easy as hell, we typically one shot every boss on a new normal raid without seeing it before because the tuning is so incredibly lax the mechanics don’t matter.

Classic isn’t complex but it does hit hard in a lot of cases.

Heroic and certainly mythic raids are generally much harder than classic for sure.

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Because retail is far more forgiving when it comes to that kind of thing.

Just imagine the gold it would cost for 200 wipes in Classic. Full consumes (elixirs, food, protection pots, oils, flask time, repairs, etc) can easily be 30g per attempt. That’s 4-6k per player EASY. And look at how long it takes just to recover each time. Rezzing takes longer, buffing takes longer… meanwhile in retail you can pop back up and throw down a feast. Buffs cost less, soul-wells don’t require you to go farm shards, hunters don’t have to go get ammo, you don’t even need a repair bot, since you can just use mounts.

Classic is simpler but less forgiving.

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Sounds a lot like classic doesnt it?

Disagree. Retail mechanics are much more punishing and even though a classic wipe costs more they happen so much less that its not really that punishing

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Maybe fully world buffed, but if you’re doing a boss for the first time with full world buffs I feel like you’re cheating yourself. No one did that in 2006 and the bosses are blatantly not tuned for it.

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Tuning in mythic is tight, but you were trying to compare classic raids to normal mode raids in retail. Mechanics in normal mode are WAY less punishing. Some can even be mostly ignored like you’re playing LFR.

If your entire raid team is fully world buffed and fully consumed, classic raids are maybe slightly harder than normal mode retail. If you wipe once, you’re suddenly around heroic difficulty.

THAT’S unforgiving.

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Oh well? As a former mythic raider you and I both know that its nothing for the players of this game to use every trick up their sleeve to accomplish the goal. Stacking classes, WBs, cheesing mechanics. Its all on the board. Only one version is going to punish the hell out of you no matter what you do, and the other is so simplistic guilds made self imposed challenges to give themselves goals

Also 2006 isnt the best example. 15 years of theory crafting have shown how far off those players were. I wont say they were stupid, but they absolutly werent the raiders of today

Do i need to go through classics raids and break down all the mechanics I ignore?

Stand by that at its hardest being 0 WBs classic is a notch below normal raiding

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