I think proving was like a nice try to teach casuals. Personally I think they should update it and explain common mmo tactics and mechanics. Maybe update it every expansion for new mechanics.
You can practice in that mode and it has an endless version.
People expect you to know what’s going on in this game because it’s been out for almost 20 years. Not saying that’s an acceptable mentality, but it’s the truth.
Also, everything in end game instanced content is essentially competitive. Go faster, go harder or don’t waste my time is the general approach for a lot of players.
That mentality even found its way into classic wow where people wanted an optimal raid group to clear Moten core in record speed even though people were 2 manning Onyxia.
Until Blizzard fundamentally changes how end game systems work, the pug life will always be this way. The only solution is to find a guild who doesn’t rush.
Low level keys “0-5” seemed to be filled with “wannabe elitists” that demanded more from LEARNING players than they should have.
Yeah, absolutely. The mediocre players are the worst, because they expect unrealistic stuff and they think their success is hampered by others while in reality they are the ones who need to get good.
Vast majority of DPS would rage quit after the first wipe.
Doubt. I do have leavers sometimes, some of them leave a totally timeable key for no reason at all, but nowhere near vast majority.
Very few players took time to explain Mythic mechanics before the run started.
Well, a lot of people assume that everyone has a minimal amount of experience. If you are new, just say it before. I would gladly explain at the very least the “do this or die” type of mechanics.
Even fewer would explain proper routes to take, as Tank I needed to know and again before the run started.
Again, say that you are new or dont know route very well before starting. Altough if you are falling short of %, people will almost always point it. There are even some people with a weakaura saying how much % you need to progress further in a dungeon.
DPS had a hard on for pulling extra trash because I wasn’t pulling enough, again still learning.
You should pull relative to the level of the key and the efficiency of the group. For example if your dps have very low dps and/or dont handle stuff like interrupts/cc, doing big pulls is a bad idea; but if you have good dps and decent interrupts, you should pull bigger. But that must always be either your decision or the group should ask. DPS should never pull. Screw these people: first time they do it, warning, second time, leave the group. You will get another invite soon.
Our group would “easily” reach the final boss and wipe for the first time in the whole dungeon and for whatever reason they would rage quit.
Yeah, again, some people quit for anything, without thinking there is still a lot of room to time the key. Personally i will only leave a key if a) unexpected IRL stuff; or b) the key is an absolute wipefest and it has totally drained my patience. B happens more quickly if i am tank or healer, because as dps i can focus on doing things well myself, as tank/heal i have to take care of group mistakes and it reaches a point where i dont have energy to carry them anymore.
Higher keys needed certain classes with certain abilities, understandably.
The only certain classes with certain abilities that you should normally have in higher keys are lust and brez (and even then, keys up to certain level can be totally done without any of that). Anything else are mediocre elitists, because every spec has done all keys in at least +24. How many people here run 24s?
And there are the covenant buffs. Honestly, these arent absolutely necessary either, unless in a very high key. Some buffs are always important to have (ie: SoA spears or the skip/seeds in Mists), some depends on the weekly affix (ie: HoA stoneborns and PF red slimes are more valuable on Tyrannical and SD/DoS lanterns in Fortified), and some can be almost entirely ignored (ie: ToP banners).
Higher keys seemed to flow a lot better than lower-level keys.
Absolutely, because more often than not, people in higher keys have at least some degree of understanding of how things work, so usually the keys run way smoother. The downside of that is that people who are totally clueless of mechanics are way more evident and people have much less tolerance to them. Personally, i am much more likely to leave a wipefest key if the group is made of high-ish io players or KSM alts. Because new players do usually learn from deaths and try to not make the same mistake again, clueless experienced players simply dont care about mechanics because they are used to being carried everywhere, so they will repeat the same thing over and over again.
Honestly, I wish they’d rework proving grounds to test specific mechanics on raid bosses or things, basically a “Danger Room” type thing. I remember there was an addon that let you practice like hiding from Shriekwing by using something with the model viewer to make a simulation.
This is very true, and is a huge reason why the WoW community is so toxic. Especially the second part, since the whole game is based around this competitive “better, faster, stronger” approach. M+ just makes it 10x worse IMHO because it’s actually timed. Raids (likely not pugs though) tend to be more forgiving but with keys? Forget about it; you’ll get people treating a +5 like a +25.
Rage quitting after wiping for the first time on the last boss is the most non-sensical thing I have ever seen. It’s incredibly frustrating. Such a waste of the time for the entire group. Had it happen not long ago.
The worst part is people seem to do it out of ignorance. Isn’t the timer generous enough that unless you’re really screwing around/wiping you can achieve it? One wipe is meaningless.
I’ll just say, that at this point in the expansion - and this is totally unfair to a new tank, I’ll admit - I’m just used to certain pulls. Take the first pull in Mists for example; I focus one of the casters in the second pack for interrupts, target the Tirnenn Villager in the second pack as my main target, and I expect the tank to pull the small adds in the first pack into the second pack. So I’ve done this before, but not because I’m impatient, but because it’s what I’m just used to doing.
Oh yeah, especially in my case, we had plenty of time left. And even if we didn’t? I put “chill completion” in the title. We would have gotten a vault reward / ilvl reward bump just for finishing the run.
It’s often people just being impulsive and acting in a selfish way. I can understand if this happens in a run that seems doomed from the getgo, but this wasn’t the case.
Hélas, such are the risks of pugging.
I don’t know if it’s been said, but the expectation when you’re doing ranked content like m+ means (especially as tank) you’ve viewed some 3rd party sites that tell you best talents, conduits, leggos, path, etc.
There are a lot of reasons for ppl to do low keys 0-5; Blizz is pushing for good players to assist lowbie players by offering free renown and valor for going back to low keys, for example.
Some people know these dungeons like the back of their hand on very high keys, and will get bored easily when playing lowbie alts unless they spice it up.
Folks can take all that into consideration, and also remember that people can be awful to each other.
Between this post and the other one you made a few prior to this one. You arent wrong.
Researching…addons to do routes…youtube videos…
Ya why bother really. There are a lot of variables and true not everyone is unpleasant or toxic but what you share, what the op shares…I have the same experience. Im sure many others do too. I do have the time. I do.
What I dont care to spend the time on is that player response to mistakes…its just easier to skip. In addition to videos. Im not researching a product Im developing etc. Im not at work etc. I get both sides to the coin on this topic but…
So many variables between the person behind the PC, perceptions on ways to do things…
M+ can be fun but the FOMO as they say in regards to that big scary timer probably contributes to that hostility when things dont go smoothly. The irony is you can keep going and just finish it…try again…but there doesnt seem to be any room for error for some ppl.
I get it time is precious right so they say but M+ in its current state, and I think a reasonable portion of the posts here, highlight its shortcomings.
I would say the perception and individual response a common problem but it isnt a game design issue unless one finds a better way to do things without a timer etc.
Overall the experience as it currently is…just not really worth it for me. Not the experience I am looking for maybe is better verbage.
My unsolicited 2 cents.
And this alone IMHO is a bad thing. Not likely to ever change, but the way to learn isn’t “go watch a video” especially as far as actually doing the content; sure you can see what talents/legendary is best, but you don’t know for sure how something works until you actually see it.
Nothing stops you from doing that now. At the end of the day, it’s the gear at the end of the run and in the vault that matters. Once you get to a point where you can’t time it, stop worrying about the timer. You’ll end up timing a bunch of them on accident I’m sure.
Too often though you don’t GET to that point because people ragequit at the first sign of not timing. Because the timer is the whole focus of the system
Right, but judging by how many people make these sorts of threads, I can’t believe you’d have too much trouble finding 4 other people to play your way. As you play and gain experience, you’re going to start beating the timer on accident. You just don’t have to pull as fast as people say. The pace of the average leveling dungeon is enough.
I can coroborate having a similar experience as a pugging tank back in BfA. Completely turned me off from tanking at all. Now I just dps and host my own keys, worth waiting extra for a tank than dealing with all that bs
If you ever need a tank hit me up lol
that’s true for many ppl including myself, blizz relies far too heavily on free third party (advertising) to make their game functional. End of the day, the resources are out there, and if you’re bringing down the team in ranked play because you ignore the resources, you will be hard pressed for an invite back after a drained key, or getting carried.
Right, I’m not saying you shouldn’t use resources. But a lot of the time, you still have to actually see a mechanic in person to really “get” it. Watching someone else execute it gives you an idea of it, but seeing it yourself is the only way to actually learn.
wholly agree. There are those who would say that’s what norm/heroic are for. Learn oneself while learning the dungeons before learning the affixes. But of course the game is designed for heavy hitters to assist new folks, so that norm/heroic argument is moot.
Normal/Heroic also don’t have some mechanics that are present in mythic, so you can’t learn more than the absolute basics in them anyway. People seem to forget that; in Mythic/M+ you have some extra things to deal with that you can’t learn outside of Mythic/M+