Isn’t that the problem? This obvious double standard? Why does Blizzard need to bend the knee and give every player who steps foot in M+ the best rewards, but not for raids?
TBH I don’t care what you are debating. Your opinions mean nothing to me. If you haven’t noticed, I stopped writing fully fleshed out responses to you, and only you. This is the extent of effort you get now.
I’ll restate my earlier analogy with the same caveat that you treat it responsibly, and not as a literal comparison.
The difficulty jump between raids acts as a natural deterrent, like the threat of a broken arm or the embarrassment of failing in front of a large group.
That doesn’t mean those players aren’t looking for that mythic gear from somewhere. So they gravitate to the content they believe (right or wrong) they can succeed in because it doesn’t present the same level of innate deterrence. Conversely, it’s the last bastion (this season) for any hope of getting that myth track gear.
So to them it feels like, this is their avenue to those rewards. Unfortunately they go in there expecting it to be different and run headfirst into reality.
Basically you’ve got this tide of clueless, incapable players trying to overwhelm the format because there are no alternatives.
You’re trying to fight the tide, for the sake of unnecessarily protecting the integrity of myth track gear, which is not only going to fail, but will actively drive them away.
I’m not, nice job making assumptions.
Oh my feels. Somebody, hold me.
Making all these posts is the biggest proof that you don’t care and aren’t doing anything.
I believe you. 
No, I specifically said I don’t care about you, not the topic. I also stated that I’m not fighting for the title. Not even close.
lol. I wasn’t suggesting that you care about me. That’s the least of my interests.
I was saying that the number of times you’re advised players to ‘git gud’ leads me to believe you want to maintain the status quo with regard to gear acquisition and are willing to let each and every one of them know, on no uncertain terms, that you think they’re unworthy.
That is entirely you’re right. I just thought pretending you don’t care was pretty ironic. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding between us.
Because in those instances, they need to git gud if they want better rewards. Simple as that.
And…we’re back to square one.
Good luck! <3
Cool story.
Won’t read this wall of text. My question is there was no m+ before legion, there are a myriad of content that’s not m+ for you to play. Why do you play the one that you don’t enjoy and complain it not being like socialist clasic era wow ? Would leaving those, the majority of players, who enjoy the current m+, alone make your gameplay miserable ?
If you find current key level too punishing, then have you considered running a key level lower than current key level?
If only 10% of the game is doing M+, then that 10% represets 100% of the group that would be having issues with M+, and my 3%, while flattering on the surface, only puts me in the top 3rd or so of the cohort, which is much more pedestrian. There is zero reason to suspect that I have some secret talent that people in the next 3rd down from me simply doesn’t possess. I’m certain that if I cared more and worked harder I could move up, and I’m equally certain that people currently lower than me could do the same. Could the person who spends their day gathering and crafting do that? Maybe not, but they’re probably not even aware of any kind of gear issues anyway.
I think you can eliminate most of these, as I see better and worse players than me with varying levels of education, income, background, etc.
The most significant variables in my estimation is an interest in playing WoW, and a motivation to invest time and energy at getting better. Those two traits are available to nearly everyone.
It’s wild to me that your defense of the common man is ultimately boiled down to, “Take pity on them, it’s not that they’re not willing to expend effort, it’s that they’re already doing the best they can and they’re just too incompetent to improve.” That is pretty bleak. I know there are people reading the forums that don’t like what I have to say, but at least I’m coming from a place where I believe in their potential.
I’m not sure why you seem to be so concerned with the sustainability of WoW as a business but let’s examine this.
I’m concerned about a reduction in the integrity of the challenges available that are designed for people like me in a game where the vast majority of content has little to no risk of failure.
You’re concerned that this niche content will drive players away and the game will die.
I’ve been hearing for over 15 years that WoW is dying and Blizzard is going out of business because. And here we are, still playing, still talking about WoW dying. This has got to be the slowest terminal illness for a video game ever.
Meanwhile, let’s examine my concerns. People said they wanted a way to experience raid content without needing a group. They were given LFR. That wasn’t good enough, because they wanted to do actual raids, just not with the terms that actual raid groups accept to do them. So they were given Flex, a difficulty slightly more challenging than LFR, but not as difficult as Normal to account for the semi pug nature of the groups doing it. Normal mode got nerfed down to Flex level, Heroic was nerfed to Normal level, and Mythic was introduced to replace Heroic. This wasn’t good enough, and people continue to beat down at the doors of Mythic, wanting a flex lockout, wanting fewer than 20, wanting whatever they perceive as the limiting factor from doing Mythic.
None of this has anything to do with content. It is all loot. When people claimed they wanted to see the content, LFR wasn’t good enough because the ilvl of the loot wasn’t raid equivalent. When they got flex, it wasn’t good enough because the ilvl of the loot wasn’t high enough. When they nerfed Normal and Heroic, that wasn’t good enough because they want Mythic loot.
Cata heroics were released with a higher difficulty, meant to challenge higher skilled players. Now Normal, Heroic, and Mythic dungeons are nearly unfailable and the last dungeon mode where someone can experience risk is in M+. And of course, 3 entire modes of difficulty and even lower level keys aren’t good enough because they were never interested in access to content. It is always about getting the same ilvl loot as people who are willing to put in more time and effort.
My concerns about consistently lowering the bar have shown up much more realistically over the last 15 years than the concerns that everyone will stop playing and the game will die.
I would love this. Take gear out of the equation and just make the game about playing and defeating challenges. But be careful what you wish for. Without a way to “progress their characters” these people you’re so concerned about won’t play at all. They’re not interested in actually playing the game. They just want to watch their ilvl go up. I’m not interested in continually watching content get nuked so people can watch an arbitrary number go higher.
M+ is undoubtedly the worst game mode ever invented in the history of the MMORPG genre and should be removed from WoW entirely. PvP can take its place on the vault. M+ is a mini-game with nothing to do with the Lore and is responsible for turning group content into the worst experience World of Warcraft has to offer. It should be removed from retail and made into a mobile game. M+ is not fun, Dungeons are not fun. Raids are not fun when tanks overpull trash like they are on a clock causing unnecessary wipes, frustration, and wasted time. The poison spread throughout all group content due to the timer, IO scoring, and the competitiveness M+ brings is immeasurable. They need to cut the cord and move away from this incurable sweaty, smelly, and divisive disease.
Stop spamming.
If you look at his activity it’s literally copy pasting in every single M+ thread. I’ve reported every one of them as Spamming.
We finally agree on something. The guy’s missing a few marbles.
yeah somebody absolutely did not try to heal ruby life pools week 1 of m+
I mean every dungeon in S1 had massive heal checks, but yeah RLP was a big one.
Perhaps I worded that poorly.
If there are 1 million participants in M+ and you’re in the top 3% of progression you are above 97% of that portion of the population. I will take responsibility for not being clearer…
I wasn’t commenting on their individual values. You might have been home-schooled by a lobster for all I know. I meant all of the individual factors, good and bad, lead up to your relationship with Warcraft and contributed to your prolonged interest in the game. You and I truly are snowflakes in the sense that all of our combined experience is so incredibly unique to ourselves that you cannot quantify what makes someone inclined to try or not.
You are clearly a younger person, in which there is no shame, but you still have stars in your eyes and a belief in magic (figuratively.) Truly people are capable of the incredible, but if you think that most people care enough about getting good at a video game to take the steps needed to improve, you need to reevaluate many of your presuppositions about life because you’re going to be very disappointed by humanity in the long run.
My point is that you are projecting your beliefs about what’s important, what’s possible and what people are willing to do for a video game onto players who clearly aren’t in that position.
Some of them are just ignorant and need to be pointed in the right direction, but most of them don’t have half their abilities bound, if any. And a hundred other things that you would need to correct that they probably don’t care enough about to fix. I asked you about raid leadership because I have lead guilds and raids since Molten Core. I have seen what it takes to fix people’s lack of skill and most of them are incapable of much improvement. I’ve also seen new players come in and trounce everyone because they just have the goods, and a lack of bad habits and fuzzy memories of old rotations and deleted spells clouding their thoughts.
But most of them them will just give up and leave. Evidenced by the nearly 90 million inactive accounts. The 90% of players who didn’t stick with it. What’s left are 10 million players, roughly 90% of whom couldn’t complete a key without serious help.
This is endearing, honestly. That you have such belief in humanity is almost buoying. Sadly it’s just a biological mechanism that prevents us from giving up on each other before we have a chance to see the value in other things. Essentially, ignorance is bliss.
There are many many good humans, but most of them are average, and many are lazy, dumb and unmotivated. Many are victims of circumstance, some are just negligent. 50% of humanity is smarter that the other 50%, and within that top 50% only a small handful are truly gifted.
But WoW gets 100% of humanity, from the good to the bad and only a small portion of those players are going to have everything it takes - the time and desire that you mentioned.
Does that honestly elude you? I love this game and want it to continue to exist, with full funding and interest. I’m a bit concerned that you couldn’t reach that conclusion. I didn’t say it was dying, but I do think the current iteration is harmful and by all accounts next season is shaping up to be harder, less enjoyable and even more polarizing. I am very concerned and I’m not the only one.
I’m going to ask you to explain this, because the game has clearly gotten harder and harder with time. There have been some downward trends for sure, but generally speaking none of the Classics even hold a candle to retail in terms of difficulty.
Just looking at dungeons, Grim Batol is harder than it ever was, NW was until they nerfed into a reasonable state and even Mists is harder than its previous iteration, though not by much.
What has been made easier that has you concerned?