The idea of progression is cheapened when people are buying boosts in raid and mythic plus.
Wow tokens have cheapened these things I have run enough dungeon to see player who literally have no idea what is going on and yet they are in an 8 key or whatever.
Maybe that says more about how people ease into content but pretty sure there is a ton of buying for power going on.
Doomsdaying has been here for 19 years and the game is still going strong.
Truth of the matter is the majority of people do not play at a level where they need extremely high ilvl to compete.
I do not need 630+ gear to farm 10s or do mythic progression. I can start at 11.7 and still acquire KSH and AoTC just fine.
Boost always have existed and if they are a problem more people would make posts and rant about them. Same as the wowtoken. Even in an era where it is cheapened it doesnât mean that most people use them or that progression is dead. You might as well argue to remove gear in all content if there isnât progression because making it a pure grind in easy content isnât much better to me, there are arpgs for that.
Haha no, and I understand what you are saying, I think PVP is more a realm which they have done a great job of making gear less relevant as it suits that format.
Pvp gear is still relevant a lot, if not more than in pve which is why making it the way theyâve done was needed. You donât want people totally crushing others.
I miss the good old days when there was 1 track to endgame, and minor upgrade tokens or emblems. Seems like now there are 3 tracks, 4 different types of gear, with 8 stages of leveling which need 5 different types of currency. Feels like unnecessary bloat. 
Perhaps you can comprehend engagement numbers this season of m+ compared to DF season 3, Your Smugness. Dunning-Kruger much? Fewer keys even attempted each week, with an even lower percentage of completions. And this is the start of a new expac. Granted thatâs only partly tied to their poor gearing reduction changes besides the obvious tank/heal nerfs and turning mobs up to 11 while gimping interrupts. But all combined, has made gearing past delve vaults pretty miserable. Making gearing more difficult has driven more players away than boredom ever did. The juice isnât worth the squeeze. But keep shilling for this dogwater thinking yourself wise.
I miss when I mostly had to do one M+ weekly and simply could play whatever alts I wanted without having to care about crests or filling my vault and that raids would actually drop gear.
Same. Then again, I just got tired of the hamster wheel back in BFA, and just walked away in SL. Seems like I am much happier now slowing cresting to 610 and chilling.
Needing the gear to be able to clear the content and needing the gear to get into groups are two different things. Yes you can still get the achievements but it is going to be an unnecessary struggle to group with other players to do the content (unless youâre not the majority of the playerbase this season and play tank/healer or have plenty of friends playing to group with). Because why would they invite you when plenty of other people are applying that are overqualified? How are you supposed to start playing the endgame if you decided next week you wanted to return to WoW after a year away?
And while it is doomsdaying at the moment, participation numbers continue to drop. The number of keys being ran this season almost match DF S4. While not an immediate concern, many of us do enjoy M+ and donât want to see it eventually die because of silly gatekeeping.
I can just fine yes.
Theres 3 major components to this and you didnt mention a single one
Itâs still much closer to DF season 1 if you look at the graph. Week 6 had almost as much participation as DF season 1 during its week 6 and thatâs with delves and half the difficulties. This season is a decent success even if people seems to be pretty dooming about it.
The real test will be how successful an M+ season would be if there were other viable ways to crest farm.
I have to concede on that one. I must have seen a misleading chart previously. And wow, DF S1 weeks 4-6 were real bad affix weeks lol. The participation drop on those weeks and week 2 are really funny to look at in retrospect.
Even then crests or great vault, there isnât much reason to not do M+ if gear is what youâre going for. What really affects participation meaningfully was them switching it to the great vault, requiring 8 M+ weekly did multiply a lot participation. Making the gilded crests farm longer seem to be working also to keep people doing M+ for longer this season. The same way that the legendary in S3 DF did make people raid for way longer, having some sort of long term grind makes people play longer.
Yes which is why Iâm personally very happy with the new affix system. +10 also being both tyr/fort makes them more enjoyable to me as there isnât a week where trash or bosses suddenly melt. It feels more like doing the dungeon and there is less dungeon routes for me to learn as a tank which I appreciate.
People make this claim a lot with no proof or evidence.
Ive made about 3-4 different (off-meta and dps) alts now and pushed them into the 8-10 keys range, in short order, just fine.
Easy. Theres players at all ranges. You use them to work your way up. People make and play alts all the time in preparation for new seasons. I take 6mo-1yr breaks consistently and am never hampered or held back from getting to end game.
Happens every season of every xpac. Happened at the height of WoW too.
The same âgatekeepingâ thats here now was here in the past.
Technically there is. Full clears of raids give you the weekly cap. But youve got to get the full clears in.
Ive enjoyed this aspect too. Id really like to get into 12s and see what its like without the buffs from bargain affix
Which is only so useful if youâre behind on gilded.
Correct.
But mythic raiders get shots at mythic gear to drop
M+ doesnt
M+ gets to farm the gilded crests, but no mythic gear to spend it on
Mythic raiders do not get to farm crests, but they have the gear to spend on, what crests they have earned
People who do both cheat the system
Well considering most raiders do m+ youâre gonna have to catch a lot of cheaters xd
Twas just a phrase 
If youve got the time and the means, why should you not be able to reap the fruits of your labors