I think once a week is fine for M+.
That said, they should put an item on the vault vendor that upgrades a piece of fully upgraded hero track loot to myth track for 6 vault tokens, unlocked via a harder achievement similar to the achievement that provides a tier token. Kill X boss in Mythic raid or achieve X M+ rating.
This solves two things:
This would add way too much loot and would work nearly like bullions which canât really be a thing in a season. At best being able to target 1-2 item in a season would make sense but making this possible each 2 weeks would be way too strong.
Iâm confused, it doesnât add any loot. It just prevents you from getting nothing from vault while xXbestluckeverbmhunterXx lucks into upgrades every week.
Iâd also lock it behind the 4th mythic raid boss or something and 3000 IO or so.
Being able to target loot is more powerful than rng loot. In that way it makes gearing faster so itâs adding loot. Deterministic systems needs often to be way slower than rng for them to last the same amount of time. The good thing with rng systems is that they let you gear yourself quicker early then you might be chasing for a couple items later on for a small % of upgrade.
I donât see the problem with that if a difficult enough achievement is required to unlock it. We may just fundamentally disagree on the concept and thatâs okay.
Not only that you would have to already have the item fully upgraded at hero track. You earned the item, you earned the level of loot reward, and you invested crests and time into the base item. Why shouldnât you have it when the casino gods frown upon you?
Guilds would make MUCH more money selling mounts if the lockouts were changed lol.
Iâm in favor of changing them, but painting raid ID lockouts as some form of anti mount sales is insane.
For me the concept is that gearing should take time and incentivize you to do content over time. If you would add this system people would gear much faster. Moreover the 4th boss of mythic and 3k can be earned by many people from the 2nd week, itâs not really that high. Some level of rng is still more fun for me than a full deterministic system which an item each 2 weeks would lead to. You donât need full bis in any content while for sure there are advantages to it but most people that clear content like CE never had full bis same as those getting title for M+.
Oh. Then yeah we wonât agree lol. Iâm 100% anti-gambling. I donât need the dopamine that way.
Iâm not sure how the ratings will go for M+, but Iâd lock it behind all +12âs timed for M+. Also for most guilds 4/8M wonât be week 2, so from your perspective I think that sure maybe itâs not ideal? For the masses I think it would be a very, very different story when itâs coming at least several weeks into a season.
Without titanforging for me the odds are not too bad. That would be gambling for me. Games often have some level of rng, there are more deterministic games but that doesnât mean itâs gambling. I could see them giving you one or 2 item upgrade for a season if you cross a certain point but after that anything more for me is just too much that I simply feel would never happen as it would mean changing too much how people play the game and for many for the worse.
We also already have some level of bad luck protection with crafting so Iâm not sure thereâs even a need to add more. But I understand that getting full bis is another story which is fine the way it is for me.
There are rewards for pushing raid at the highest level.
There are no rewards outside a super restrictive title for pushing M+ at the highest level.
The issue for me is that when Crafting becomes BiS the content youâre doing has even less of a reward tied to it. These games are about challenge and loot. While there is ALOT of loot there isnât (in my opinion) enough compensation for appropriate levels of difficulties.
Devs worry too much about degen gamers and punish one subset of gamers for it. PvP has its own scaling gear, M+ either deserves same treatment or gear needs to be scaled based on key level.
Thatâs because M+ rewards simply canât scale better the only way to do this would be to push current rewards in later levels. Which they have kept doing and can do much more for sure. We could make the m+ vault require a certain level of difficulty instead of an amount of M+. First choice would be +10 then 2nd choice +14 then third choice +18. This is actually how raiding vault work.
Not sure thatâs true when crafting requires you to clear high end content atm for most of it.
Which for me higher level of content could drop more crests but you canât simply double the loot.
From my point of view degen gamers are those that try to speed run and gear the fastest by spamming the same content.
I mean I donât see a world where M+ can drop mythic track gear without it being split from raid. Iâm all for people arguing to split it but thatâs also not very practical from the overall point of view. I donât feel itâs a big problem for most people that will never push for a M+ title.
Then just completely separate mythic plus gear from raid gear.
We have three separate pillars and we should have three separate sets of gear:
Pillars can be complementary but I respect the point of view to split because it would remove a lot of headaches about balancing gear for all content. I think thereâs benefits that are bigger than to split it which is probably why Blizzard might be afraid to do so when only the top of the top might have a worse experience if they take part in only m+.
Its not double loot when loot that would otherwise be obtained simply drops at a higher item level. I would also recommend it be capped to 2-3 pieces a week.
You have to do 8 high end dungeons a week to cap vault. Thatâs actually a lot of time investment given that now it will have to be 10s (old 20s) and dungeons are being scaled harder, tanks are less tanky, and overall pushing is going to be tougher. Nothing degen about doing your 8 keys. Nothing degen about pushing content which offers no rewards outside a very restrictive title. Title should be an obtainable end goal, not something that you can lose in the last week.
M+ gets new affixes at +12 to make the content harder with ZERO reward tied to pushing it. Mythic raid scales up and better loot and even a Mythic only mount is rewarded.
M+ is constantly snubbed in the loot department and appropriation of rewards for difficulties of content completed.
You see, on the other side M+ is also the fastest gearing system for anything under mythic. The time spent in it for the quality of gear it gives is clearly not comparable the mythic raiding, it is way more efficient to do m+ for mythic track gear even if itâs capped.
In many ways I feel M+ players canât see how good they have it.
If mythic raiding really had it that good way more people would do it.
Well thatâs doubling or tripling ⊠xd
The fact m+ has infinite heroic track loot dropping is not a justification for me to push more mythic track gear, on the contrary.
Hey I agree, then argue to push a great vault like I am suggesting.
+10 for first slot, +14 for second and +18 for third. There you go you have progression and meaningful reasons to push. We can also move the KSM mount to doing +15s. Thatâs the thing M+ is made for people to degen every week thatâs why the system is made this way. They werenât happy with people doing their one weekly key before. And while you might say itâs an option, you still have to farm mythic crests anyway from it which is also something you canât really do from the raid. Oh right we could also push the crests to only drop from even higher keys⊠I really donât think M+ players appreciate how accessible their rewards are compared to raiding.
People think raiders get insta geared the moment they step into mythic raids, asking for 2-3 guarantee mythic ilv items is more than someone killing 5-6 bosses is getting in 1 week.
When the vast majority of ce guilds dont get to that point even 2 months into a season.
Which is enough to get you can expect to get full 16/16 coverage in myth vault if you play for the full season (important to note that the competitive part of M+ happens the very last week of the season now).
But as long as there is no lockout on end of dungeon loot, there will be no myth drops.
6 bosses in 1 week is 1.2 items per person, and then youâre done.
No going back to continue to farm it until that exact item you want drops (as you can do in M+).
Youâre just a mythic raider who wants to maintain your advantage in M+. If Mythic raid wasnât rewarding you reclear. Congrats on CE though.
Infinite unusable gear. I typically gear from Heroic raid and crafting. Heroic/Mythic Raid typically has BiS trinkets and weapons.
Maybe what Iâve seen my gaming friends do isnât the norm.
Iâve gone an entire patch without seeing bis items in vault, while seeing bis items in raid. Mythic Raid clearly has better loot, and better reward structures.
Interesting you say this⊠because why would WFRs do heroic splits if M+ was faster?
All in all, loot needs a rework. Mythic raid gets Mythic Raid only things⊠High end PvP gets High end PvP only things. High end M+ has no such rewards. They gave more challenge with no compensation.
Iâm not pushing in M+ and M+ has been more a chore to me than anything else 
M+ progression for me end after the first 2 weeks because thatâs when I manage to get to the max rewards it gives and what I care mostly out of it.
Most people gear with M+. Itâs simply easier and faster and more efficient for most of it. As someone that use it for that main purpose it is pretty powerful to be able to fully gear yourself in one week in hero track gear. M+ also had plenty bis coming from it, it simply depends on the season and of the tuning of raid trinkets or of cantrip items which a dungeon like DotI had plenty.
Because they can funnel gear by using people to trade it to them (which they even pay in gold). Something that is largely unrealistic for most people even for most in the top 10 guilds.