I have read a lot of opinions, which I share, that the BfA mythic+ are too “trash heavy” and that turns them into slogs where the Legion versions felt better.
What would it mean to reduce the insignificant trash, while leaving enough challenging trash to meet the difficulty objective, but reduce overall time of each run? The timers would also drop (as would the relative enemy forces – just scaled down), of course, but I’m thinking a fully mythic+ clear key times under 30 min, instead of the current 40 minutes.
So overall say a 35% reduction in all trash and enemy forces required and reduce the timers by maybe 25% (since bosses aren’t being touched). I’d say it would greatly improve the overall feel of the mythic+ system and make it a little more balanced between trash and bosses. Right now, they feel like trash first, bosses secondary. Especially when fortified and teeming are added, the dungeons quickly become a lot less fun to run through.
Example: two wings of Atal’Dazar
So just thinking about it in Atal’Dazar. As you start the instance, let’s say you go right into the undead section to the totem boss. Currently there are 10 packs of trash with 23 mobs. If instead the key packs were left in – say the large pack before the totem boss, all the stealthy mobs and the largest two pack just before the stairs – that would make it 6 packs with 15 mobs. About a 35% reduction while leaving the coordination necessary to handle the hardest packs.
If you went left instead, there are currently 10 packs of trash with 31 mobs. That could reduce to just the 3 largest packs for 21 mobs to retain the difficulty and get a reduction of 40%. I mean what is really the point of packs of 1 or 2 mobs anyway – they are by no means challenging, just there to slow things down.
Seems like this could be a fairly easy way to invigorate the mythic+ system in BfA and make it feel a lot smoother and more fun. I used to really enjoy Maw of Soul runs and there is little in BfA that gets even close to that pace.
Quite simply, you want to be able to pull 3-4 packs of trash and faceroll them down. You only want to “try” for approximately 5-7 minutes (total boss time) of the entire dungeon.
Your atal’dazar example is baffling. I definitely can’t think of 10 packs of trash to the right side? And 2-3 of them can be completely skipped. If you go right, you don’t have to go left, so boom, problem solved.
The trash is still faceroll; they literally just want you to interrupt. That’s honestly it. DPS needs to keybind their interrupts again, and there will be no more issues.
Well, I like M+ as it is - but I also like to take my time and I generally don’t care if I make timer and I’m totally content at my +7 level. But overall I think people are leaving it, we have had a 20% dropoff in players doing it so far in BfA already. For long term I think it needs to appeal to a larger audience and Legion did that better, imo. What happens is that, no matter how much you like it, if participation drops, it dies. I’d hate to see that, it’s the best part of BfA by far.
But I will take your opinion that it isn’t trash heavy in mind, and that’s cool. I disagree with you, but that’s ok too. I see you are at +12 level, what’s keeping you from +20? Just wondering. Because, with your attitude, it’s too hard for you too, because you are -8 from those players just like I’m -5 from you
Sorry it was unclear. My suggestion is to reduce it 35% and remove the silly mob packs of 1 or 2. This also would reduce the % needed for enemy forces and speed up the M+ experience by about 10 minutes for all players.
As for difficulty, I am suggesting keeping all the hard trash, just removing the dumb 1 or 2 trash packs that are absolutely not challenging, just there to slow down the run. My changes, if you walk through them, don’t change the difficulty in the slightest (so that’s just either bad reading on your part or bad explaining my part, or both).
My example also is the theory for the whole dungeon, just take what I said to the entire dungeon to understand the concept. I never said you had to roll every path on every run If you still don’t see the 10 packs, then grab Method’s dungeon tool to study it if you want.
The problem with M+ isn’t how difficult they are, it’s all the fake ilevel heroes who got all their gear from trash fail-proof content, lucky titanforging, or welfare content like Mythic dungeon week.
If you filter out all the garbage or run with good players they seem tuned about right for what they are and can be fun.
The problem is if you ever have to pug them for any reason at all they’re a complete nightmare and can be so unfun as to make you want to just turn off WoW for the night when you’re done whether you finished in time (you probably won’t) or got loot (you almost definitely won’t) or not.
TL;DR the problem is the “trash” but it’s in the form of players and not mobs
I pug exclusively with a couple rotating dps players and the occasional guardian Druid. I also play a class that isn’t very useful in high keys in a pug as does my friend (Enh shaman).
We rely on strangers to be competent and that is pretty rare. We use no voice comms and roll the dice. As far as me not doing 20s, I have no shame admitting that is too rich for my blood. That is a rare breed of player that squeezes everything (tricks, skips etc) out of their groups and are usually the better quarter of a mythic raid team, which is why most of those people are in the mid 380+ ilvl.
So, while your question was by all accounts pretty stupid (showing you know little of what you need to be able to do keys in the 20s range with) I answered it honestly.
Why you think my “attitude” of thinking trash is fine in M+ means I should be able to do 20s is beyond me. It is meant to be a challenge, not a cake walk. Don’t lash out at me because you are struggling to do medium level keys.
Edit: I consider myself to be a capable 1300-1450 (M+, not PvP as some posters have erroneously assumed) player currently. I have no one to blame except myself for playing a class/spec no one wants (I guess I blame Blizzard too for this, their class balancing is atrocious) but I enjoy it and I have always played a Warrior since my start. I don’t believe in FoTM rerolling and I am willing to deal with it. I’m hoping to hit 1300 by the end of the season.
I also have a friends list of people that are 1400-1600 that have begged me to reroll so I can run in their groups, I just refuse. I’m content with where I am insofar as knowing I am not the one holding my groups back but a victim of circumstance. Except King’s Rest. Goo god I suck at that dungeon, can never pump out the numbers I need to in there. Might be a mental block at this point.
This is our third revolution of Sanguine and DPS are still not letting tanks pull mobs back to a safe place in Waycrest Manor. I’ve seen nothing but 1200 players do this repeatedly this week.
As soon as the tank gets into combat you have people unloading massive AoE with CDs…I left my own Waycrest 12 and 11 this week because of it. I feel for tanks this week, even good ones need cooperation from the group to succeed this week.
Legion M+ had a lot of trash and between Fortified and especially Fortified teeming weeks, or in combination with some of the other trash boosting affixes, there were plenty of weeks where the trash pulls were harder than the bosses.
The same happens in BfA. Nothing has really changed.
Disagree. Players who complain about trash aren’t looking for a challenge in the game. These type of players are only looking to get a quick fix for their ‘loot addiction’ problem. To them they don’t care about obstacles or how they get what they want, they just want to active their brain reward centers as easily as possible. These type of players are the worst group to cater to and it’s the number ONE reason this game has gone down the drain in the past few years.
Mythic+ is great right now, besides a few problems, but these problems were also present in legion, and it has nothing to do with how much trash are in the dungeons. It has to do with utility disparity between classes, how groups are formed, leavers, and how rewards are handed out.
Yeah, BfA M+ is definitely all about add management. I think blizurd was embarrassed by how easy a time the MDI competitors had pulling half the trash in a dungeon and AOE’ing it down.
I find what you just said ironic with that name of yours.Oh noes he named the toon over a mythology please i could care less about playing wow peoples way ill play it my way always.Play wow on easy or med play the other games i have on harder sounds good to me just the way i like it. Going solo in wow best decision i have ever made.
![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")