The bosses have gotten harder as most players have gotten better.
But Mythic is the original difficulty.
Blizzard really knew what they were doing when they conned everyone with their 6.0 name change, though, I’ll grant them that.
“Normal” is the newest and youngest of the difficulties, wasn’t added until Siege of Orgrimmar. 
It is litearlly not correct,
it is not true,
it does not reflect reality
it is a delusion to think that current Mythic Fyrakk is the same level of difficulty as Ragnaros or Illidan or Lich King.
I mean Nefarian and C’thun were respectively 77 days and 113 days and Fyrakk was like 2 weeks in terms of first kill right?
That’s all got is a no? Its a game with a higher mau than blizz, has a greater barrier to entry and is more focused on group play, while have resources and ships only available to less than 1% of its playerbase. So explain how you arrive at a no?
I like the idea of being able to flex UP and not just flex down to 14 people or whatever combo ends up being the most efficient.
That was not his point. His point was that Blizzard made the hardest difficulties first and then added lower difficulties to make raiding more accessible.
Hence “Mythic” came first.
Though you could absolutely consider Naxx/AQ40 and BT/SW to be Vanilla and BC’s equivalent of Mythic raiding since it the model was based around moving through raids based on their respective difficulty with the best players being at the high end and the low tier players just kinda farting around MC/Karazhan for an expansion.
Difficulty is relative. For all we know in 20 years we’ll have Godhood raiding where the game is literally a bullet hell. The fact of the matter is the raid was difficult for the players back then.
Is that really a bad thing?
I get that there are issues with things like HoF which I think could be solved in a different way I’ll touch on in the next paragraph. But for the entire player base, why would it be a bad thing if players can min-max their way to having 9 different group sizes in a raid tier of 9 different raid bosses? Why is it better for the game developer to lock this down in such a restrictive manner than even the guilds that reach AOTC halfway through the season and simply want to dip their toes into mythic can’t kill a boss because their raid size is 14 or have to tell 6 players they can’t join every night if their raid is 26 players? Why is it better that teams who can clear heroic in week 2 but don’t want to deal with the hassle of maintaining a 20-man active raid roster with 6-player bench doesn’t really have much of a way to challenge themselves with raid content after they get AOTC?
Yes, for HoF (and by extension RWF), flex scaling and the min-maxing potential it brings would be a nightmare. So what if Blizzard did all initial mechanic tuning around there being 20 players (with increases or decreases from there to account for different raid sizes) and added a strictly 20-person cap variant of every boss kill achievement that would be used for any HoF/RWF activity. This way, the raid team that wants to jump from 23 to 14 to 19 members can do so just to be able to say they could clear it, while any raid team that doesn’t care about that can bring whatever number of players who want to participate and guilds chasing HoF placement would have to still run exactly 20 and get the tuning Blizzard intended.
Just make its just like normal/heroic for flex. Like theres zero reason to keep a limit after the region 1st’s are all done
No. It is just the lazy way of addressing problems. And it would create new problems. That would also need to be balanced.
Because every game has rules. There is always a cutoff. Normal and heroic are flex, because they are easy and no one cares.
I am in a guild like this right now. It is a problem. But the solution should be addressing why recruiting is such a nightmare.
Why the in-game guild finder still shows guilds from Legion. Why are there so many dead servers that don’t have the population to run mythic? Why isn’t it by battlegroup?
Why don’t they combine servers to make recruiting easier without erasing the communities that servers used to create?
This is an mmorpg. That was always the best, when you played with friends. If they spent any time improving our ability to find other players with common interests, the majority of these complaints would disappear.
They can expand/improve the guild finding interface/process AND remove a lot of the arbitrary barriers around just the 1 of 4 raid difficulties like non-flex, raid ID lockouts, and no cross realm for months (this is being changed in the next expansion)?
With the change to mythic cross realm at launch in War Within and cross realm guides the game is now essentially 1 large mega server. The last major barrier is raid ID lockouts which have been removed from everything else in the game except 1 raid difficulty.
2 modes are flex. 2 are not. Team size is not an arbitrary barrier. It is literally the foundation of nearly every competitive team game in existence.
Either, we get no gear from additional lockouts, so no one is doing it. Or we do get gear, which would mean split runs and boss farming would become meta. Raid loggers don’t want to do 4 dungeons a week, but they will farm bosses like eggnog or council several hundred times for rare items?
I press X to doubt.
Team size is fairly arbitrary in an online video game capable of adjusting the encounter based on the size of the team playing it.
People can split run heroic right now and yet only like 10 guilds in the world do.
And yet, nearly every competitive game mode has a static team size…
Maybe because most competitive video game team modes have small teams?
We are talking about a freaking video game not an online esport tournament here.
Comparing getting 3 (arena) or 5 (mythic+) to 20 + bench is insane.
Not to mention raid ID lockouts destroy any capability to find new players during the week for fun. And no cross realm for 3 months. Just arbitrary restriction after arbitrary restriction.
No, what is insane to me is that people take mythic raiding seriously. People complain about raid balance, class balance, comp requirements and difficulty.
But your solution, is to take a controlled variable and blow it up? Adding possibly the most variability possible and honestly killing any shot at relative balance. In the competitive mode. For funzies.
And you think it will go well. And not create any new problems. Ok… LoL…
Like what? Requiring exactly 20 players is a problem for every group wanting to try mythic. I don’t dispute there would be new problems to break that restriction, but using a generic statement that other problems would exist as a reason to not even consider that change means we could never make any change to the game ever.
It would, but I don’t think that would have to be a major hurdle given they’ve already come up with a repeatable algorithm for flex mechanics in normal and heroic. With my proposal, the gold standard is still 20 players and all official mechanisms for comparing raid achievement will still require exactly 20. I don’t think Blizzard needs to come up with a perfect scaling algorithm such that running raid with 13, 17, 20, and 24 all carry the same difficulty, they can make a reasonable guess and only tweak things if the clearing speed of one size becomes a major outlier in either direction.
Sure, and I’m not suggesting Blizzard remove all rules around raiding. I’m merely questioning why the rule around raid size for anyone who wants to step foot in mythic raid should be so rigid.
I’m genuinely happy to be told what I’m missing for why this is bad for the game. But so far the only arguments I’ve seen for why it would be bad is the relative difficulty being different for different raid sizes, which I personally don’t think is bad so long as Blizzard maintains a gold standard raid size for HoF placement.
I am with you 100% that guild recruitment is abysmal. Honestly for being the most popular MMO in human history, it’s incredible how bad the multiplayer features are.
With that said, even if WoW developed the best recruitment process ever, there is no way to get around the fundamental issue having hard raid limits carries when it comes to raid roster. Every group wanting to raid mythic has the following options, and only these options:
Carry a bench to ensure you can accommodate any time someone on your active raid roster cannot perform in raid. Some groups also have slots on their bench dedicated to players who play different classes/roles for any bosses where a different composition might make progress easier. Anyone on the bench is expected to be available during raid time but they are not permitted to raid unless an active raider can’t make it or the group decides they want a different composition. That sucks for the players on the bench who just want to raid and can suck for members of the active roster having to tell those on the bench they cannot participate.
Carry exactly 20 players on your raid roster. If one or two members of your raid roster cannot perform in a raid any of your regularly scheduled times, your group either has to PUG a replacement (which also creates problems due to the mythic raid lockout) or cancel raiding mythic that time.
I agree with this statement for nearly all aspects of WoW, but will fall short for maintaining a viable roster to mythic raid so long as there is a hard cap on the number of players for raid. You either have to keep extra players on hand who expected to be around during raid time yet not raid for the times a normal raid member cannot participate or risk needing to cancel/PUG members if any member of your normal raid team is unavailable for a raid.
Which is why enforcing a static team size for the competitive aspects of raid wouldn’t need to change. Allowing an guild of friends who raid with 13 people that get AOTC 3 months into the season to dip their toe into mythic would have no impact on the guild achieving place 62 on HoF if the latter still requires exactly 20 players.
Have you ever played baseball? Or basketball? Or football? Have you ever tried to play baseball with 6 players? Or 12? The size of the field is designed around the number of defenders available. GL getting a hit when there are 5 outfielders.
Yes. That is literally what every competitive team sport in existence does. No idea why mythic raiding is some special unicorn.
I feel the balance issues majorly pale in comparison to the issues presented by static 20, no cross realm, and raid ID lockouts.
And “balance” is a meme when Blizzard demolishes the fights with nerfs over the tier anyway.
You seriously thing the alter or “balance” is worth so many restrictions in just letter your players…play the video game?
We are really out here… saying we don’t care that much about balance… in the competitive game mode… ooof.
Getting 2 spears on iggy is not mythic. But if our goal, is to let them feel like special snowflakes, sure… I guess?
It’s extremely sad how Blizzard has managed to find the perfect sweet spot of making Mythic Raiding feel extremely gated to quite a large population of the playerbase while also having guilds that are aiming for CE that either struggle to fill or have to overfill. There are plenty of guilds out there that clear AOTC pretty much at the start of the season but won’t be going beyond that because of all the extra work that they have given. You gotta read through apps, you gotta poke players that aren’t signing up for raid, you gotta bench players and they may not be happy about that. And this is without getting into the actual content of the raid itself and then we take into account server restrictions. Why is this gate so large? It genuinely just keeps people away.