Make the lockout only affect your ability to trade any items that drop that run. Such a simple change that’ll make our experience so much more better.
This is my character.
Edit:
In case there’s any confusion.
How Mythic Lockout works right now:
You kill 1 boss, you are stuck in that lockout. Meaning you cannot join any other group. And anyone else with a lockout cannot join yours. Meaning forming a group can be EXTREMELY difficult and time consuming. To add onto this, groups break so easily after 1 wipe. And when reforming, you mess up everyone else’s Lockout with yours. So if you cleared 3 bosses, and someone new, without a lockout, joins your group. They now have their own lockout with the first 3 boss cleared with no loot. And the chances in reforming a group that is able to keep going is pretty low, meaning those new people are now screwed with that lockout for the whole week.
My Idea for a new Mythic Lockout System:
If you’re in a lockout, you are still able to join other groups. Loot the bosses you haven’t cleared, able to trade items that drop from the bosses you haven’t cleared yet. But for bosses you have cleared, you cannot loot, or trade the items that drop from that boss that other players have looted.
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This isn’t a new idea, it’s the same as the lower difficulty raid lockouts. It’s also not a good idea, for the same reasons that have been spelled out in detail over the years.
If you want to do mythic, you need to play by the rules of mythic. They are there for the benefit of the community it’s designed for. It would be completely wrong to make a change that hurts its intended audience for the exclusive benefit of pugs. If you don’t like the way it works, you don’t have to do it.
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once the hall of fame has filled out they should just make mythic raid lockout work like heroic lockout but disallow the use of extra bonus rolls.
I dont see who its hurting at that point
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It’s hurting the mythic raiding community, which consists of more than just hall of fame guilds.
You not understanding how doesn’t change that reality.
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Well go ahead and state your case so i can understand you.
The rules can be changed. And the only thing I’m changing is making Mythic Raiding replayable. If you don’t like that, then you don’t have to listen to me.
Stupid point. Do you really expect someone to agree with you on that?
Anyways, I didn’t say it was a new idea. It was my idea. And if other people had the same, hey, maybe that says something.
Makes Mythic Bosses replayable outside of weekly reset. Loot system is the exact same. Now, I understand WFs. I’m cool with current tier Raids being under the current system right now. I understand that. Guilds progressing, etc. Even though once their outdated the only reason people run them is for the mog. You could make the argument that there are guilds that progress older raids still. But then I would counter it by saying, it’s best if we argue for the majority. And plus, they can easily just limit themselves to 1 boss clear a week.
Or you could make the argument that it takes away the “feeling” this current system gives. Which you did. So what about every new expansion? I don’t get to feel our Artifact Weapons again. Necklace? No, I want the weapon. Well too bad. Too bad for you.
Anyways, they won’t change it, so don’t worry about it. They don’t read the Forums anyways.
It’s not my case, it’s reality. The reality is changing the lockout opens up split runs, loot funneling, and the economic disruption of mass mount and gear sales. None of these things are good for the game as a whole, and they are most especially bad for the intended audience of Mythic.
If you want to pug mythic that’s your choice, but you have to be willing to accept the rules of mythic.
I don’t really care if you agree. You have the freedom to be wrong. There is a whole Flat Earth Society of people who insist on using that right. You can accept the facts or not.
Multiple people having the same bad idea doesn’t give it more credibility. Reference again the Flat Earth Society.
If you’re just pushing for a change to legacy content, I have no issue with that. I don’t know how the raid difficulty is programmed or how difficult it would be to adjust the lockout when a new expansion releases, so it may not be feasible. But I don’t see any philosophical reason that would be a problem changing the lockout for legacy raids.
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After the hall of fame is filled who cares about split runs and loot funneling? race to world 101st?
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Plenty of people, for a variety of reasons. If you’re going to debate this intelligently, you need to stop thinking about how change would benefit you personally, and start thinking about how other people would abuse it and what the consequences of that abuse would be.
If you can’t anticipate what those issues would be and explain why they are they won’t negatively impact the mythic community or how the proposed system could be modified to prevent them, then all you have is a self centered argument that boils down to, “Do it this way because it would be easier for me.” Not a particularly strong case.
People already sell the mount and mythic runs the economic impact of this change is only going to effect people already selling runs.
As far as split running goes the current raid took 4 months to open up for xrealm, what progression guild is under geared at this point?
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People sell the mount and a gear run once per week. This proposal would open that up to dozens and dozens of sales every week for every raid group. Please tell me you don’t need that economic impact explained.
Split running in this system wouldn’t just be about the gearing of a progression guild. It’s tied together with the economic consequences of gear sales.
Why can’t pugs just accept that if they want opportunities to win mythic gear, they need to play by the same rules as mythic guilds? It’s like a group of people showing up to a rec ice hockey league demanding that everyone play floor hockey instead because they don’t know how to skate and it just makes things too difficult. The NHL plays on ice, the rec league should just be open to everyone. If you want to play ice hockey, put your skates on and get on the ice. If you want to play floor hockey, then go do that where everyone else is doing it.
Mythic being exempt from cross-realm was there for the same reason, but now that goes away once the hall of fame is filled. I see little reason that the lockout system cannot shift to a loot-based lockout once that occurs as well. The benefits you cite for the “mythic raiding community” are already thrown to the winds by the cross-server access to mythic anyway.
By the time the hall of fame is filled, the sort of guilds that are inclined towards split runs and loot funneling are already well past the point where it makes sense to do so.
And mount and gear sales are already both possible and fairly common in mythic, especially later in the tier. Once the first month or two of progression is done, shifting the lockout model isn’t going to collapse the system like you think it will, especially given that many of the things you’re trying to preserve are already broken by existing functionality in mythics.
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Cross realm doesn’t affect either of the things I cited.
Can you not comprehend the difference between a raid group selling one mount per week and 50 mounts in a week?
It absolutely will, and again, there is no functionality existing in mythics right now that allows for split run, loot funneling, and wholesale mount selling.
It demolishes this “mythic community” you keep citing, and is blatantly geared towards pugging mythic.
Really? Your concern here is making sure your mythic mount is exclusive enough? That is your beef here?
Yeesh, says quite a lot, that.
You can already split run, and peeps already do it, but only for the first few weeks, and only at the tippy-top.
It’s also worth noting that the number of loot items that drop from a boss is proportional to the number of people in the raid that are not already loot-locked to that boss, not the raw number of bodies. So running a raid with 15 peeps locked and 5 alts isn’t going to funnel 20 people worth of loot to those 5, it’s going to funnel 5 people worth of loot to those 5 (and those items can’t be traded to the other 15, either). You don’t really gain anything by doing it that way.
As for mount selling, I’ve made my opinion on that clear above. I don’t see your desire for exclusivity in the mount as being a justifiable reason to retain the existing lockout model. If you only value something insofar as others are denied it, your judge of worth is remarkably shallow.
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I’ll take issue with the idea of epeen being the sole driving force between not wanting a mythic mount to be everywhere.
People purchasing runs for the mount are buying it for the epeen factor usually, sometimes because a particular mount maybe caught their eye. But the mount isnt there to fund the next raid teirs split runs, it is intended to be one of the cool “oh wow howd you get that moments” which are basically gone from this game. Its a reward for completing a challenge most players in the game will not.
If some idiot wants to shell out a ton of gold to turn it into a participation trophy and lie to his friends i guess thats on him, but have enough of them floating around out there like that and it eventually becomes just another mount. Its “uniqueness” is inherent in its design and placement in the game, that value isn’t assigned to it by the player base.
It doesn’t enable split runs or loot funneling and it doesn’t allow the selling of multiple mounts or carries per week. I have no problem with people pugging mythic. They just have to accept the mythic lockout.
No lol. I’m not getting a mythic mount. This has nothing to do with how exclusive a personal vanity item is. It has to do with the economic issue of taking a commodity that is extremely limited, 1 per group per week, and making it extremely common. This has consequences, and you can’t just hand wave them away.
But you can’t do split runs and progression in mythic. It’s one or the other with the current lockout.
This would be so much easier if you would just say you don’t understand split runs. You can gain enormously from this, because even if you have 15 people locked and only 5 people worth of gear, those 5 people are killing bosses they wouldn’t be able to do without the 15 locked mains carrying them. That’s the whole point.
It also adds in the economic issue of a raid team being able to sell an enormous amount of gear carries through mythic by bringing their mains over and over and over again.
You clearly don’t understand the issues, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t issues.
And again, you miss the point. It’s not about the mount. It’s about the guilds that finance their progression with mount sales and the economic havoc that ensues when the availability of purchasable mounts is increased by orders of magnitude. The little horse pixels, and who has them, aren’t important. The economic consequences are, which is what I said from the beginning.
At no point did I even vaguely imply that a mount I’m not going to get is important to me because other people also aren’t going to get it.
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Ya, but you can’t funnel loot when half or more of the raid is locked and isn’t even getting loot drops. You can only loot funnel by having both the person giving up the item and the person receiving it not already loot-locked. If you use your mains to funnel, they can only do it their first time killing that boss, and if you use alts to funnel to mains, those mains can only be funneled to once.
Yes, you could carry alts, but since you’re abandoning half or 3/4ths of the loot due to locking, it doesn’t really buy you much. With only 5 people not yet loot-locked, you’re only going to see 1-2 items, and those can only go to those 5 peeps, not to the locked mains.
Seriously, personal loot already solved like 90% of the loot funneling and split raid issue.
You stated that the importance was in keeping the mount rare. I don’t see how I could have interpreted that otherwise. While you claim you won’t get the mount, you clearly care that most people are not able to get the mount. What reason would you have for that, except the status symbol benefits of such?
As for the economic arguments, I don’t really see the issue, tbh. Blizzard has flat out said they have zero issue with selling runs for gold, whether that’s for mounts or gear or achievements or whatever.
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Slightly exaggerated, his concern is that the top guilds will be able to quit their jobs and spend full time selling mounts, and the weaker mythic raiding guilds will be frozen out of the action.
Not that I agree. Being able to sell runs isn’t really fundamental to mythic raiding culture, in my opinion. Evidently he disagrees.
If people want to raid mythic why don’t they join mythic guilds?
No it should change to a system that lets later guilds skip bosses be getting someone with a lockout to make the group.