Dearest WoW Developers and to those it may concern,
Due to WoW server instability resulting in entire raid DC’s, multiple wipes, failures to reconnect, and ultimately a disbanded group and abandoned attempt, I would like to propose the removal or otherwise discontinuation of the raid lockout system to be replaced by a system that tracks defeated bosses, disallowing additional loot.
I have read WoW’s EULA as suggested by the Forum Hall Monitor and am aware that there are no requirements to correct issues that arise from the online service interruptions. However, I believe this proposed change to the raid lockout system would improve gameplay and player quality-of-life without additional opportunities for player abuse.
Thank you for your time and thoughtful consideration,
Thahl
3 Likes
Yep. Just use the same loot lockout as everything else. The changes were made for a very good reason.
3 Likes
You want them to completely change how mythic raiding works because you didn’t get loot one week at the end of the season?
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imho, it’s partially to (try to) prevent or discourage boosting in Mythic. A team can only bring one set of boost-ees a week, unlike Normal or Heroic.
Also, I don’t think Mythic is intended to be pug content. Locking you to a single team a week ensures that you’re at least continuously attempting with a regular group on a week by week basis. Given that unlike the lower difficulties, even mid-tier bosses can take hundreds of attempts to get down even a single time, I simply don’t believe that it is conducive to pug behavior. You can’t give up after a few bad pulls and expect to get through a whole Mythic raid.
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This a function of the current system though, since pugging is pretty much restricted by design less pug participation means giving up is punished more because you may not be able to fill the group. If it used normal/heroic rules, pug participation would go up and people giving up wouldn’t be as bad. Plus even if it’s not “conducive” if that’s how they wanna do it, why stop them? People who can’t join a raid team, the alternative is just to not play at all….so playing “inefficiently” will always be better than literally not signing in.
Unpopular opinion but, boosted players is just the average raid team tbh. With a 20man roster you typically have 4-5 carries on your team just to defeat the roster boss, I’ve seen it work all the way to CE (late tier but still). Not really away around this unless you lower raid size, just too much logistics at 20.
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You make some interesting points. I’m just of the belief that not all content should be puggable, I suppose. When the pug meta hit FFXIV and even Ultimates were being constantly pugged, it made me question why I even bothered taking the time to build competitive logs, apply for statics and get into a team when I could have just slammed my face into the pug wall for a few weeks.
In classic anniversary, sure, I’m all for pugging there. Getting 40 people together on a regular basis is a lot of work. But the entire GDKP pug meta killed my personal motivation to improve, which killed my motivation to play at all.
Could be an unpopular take, but I think the game is best played with a regular, consistent team. Even if not everyone on your team is the best, you’re still a team, ya know? My guild had an older grandpa on our roster for years (TBC-DF) until he unfortunately passed away. Was he a top contributor? No. Did he do mechanics properly? Admittedly, no not really. But it was the connection we had to him that mattered more.
2 Likes
The issue wow is facing is literally every other piece of content except mythic raid works the opposite of this so there is friction now with how a bunch of other people play wow. even mythic raid is fairly transactional at this point. Like unless your already in a team you like, the mythic recruitment world is literally just dog eat dog where players guild hop kill to kill to fish for the highest progress. Kill one boss with guild A, apply to guild that is already progress the next boss about to kill it. Not much connection at all. Can it happen? yes but it’s not because fo the system, its because of the players and that would continue if you could pug or not
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I suppose at that point it comes down to purpose and intent. And in that regard I guess I am not the “average” WoW player. I would rather be stuck 3/8 with a team I enjoy than 8/8 with a team I don’t. Does progress matter to me? Sure. But given the temporary nature of just about everything in WoW, I put value on who I experience that content with.
That’s your way to play right so why does that include limiting how everyone else plays the game. Your friend group isn’t going to stop being friends because they can die a million times with randoms. and if they are….it wasn’t really a connected group like you say.
If your worried that everyone would all the sudden leave these “close and connected” groups to do content solo, even if it was more painful and inefficient to do so….that really means:
- Your group wasn’t really connected.
- The guild system has such bad design and overhead that the average player would rather struggle in pug wipefest than form a team.
If the game literally has to FORCE you to hold hands to grit through content, because otherwise even at a clear disadvantage players would rather do it alone, that’s not connected social and community behavior.
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WoW is like a restaurant…
You’re absolutely right. I was actually just thinking to myself earlier today that there’s a lot of complaints on the forums that boil down to the game not catering to explicitly them, instead of to the greater community.
Flawed systems shouldn’t stay in place for the sake of posterity or because it has supposed personal benefits. Whatever is best for the community at large is typically the correct course of action.
That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Request Denied.
Allowing mythic to have the same lockout style as heroic and normal would mean if your guild is progging a later boss and you’re not PUGing the previous bosses for loot /vault, you’re choosing to actively grief your group’s progression.
Even if it played out like this on paper for max advantage, if your not in a guild that was already extra raid nighting early in the tier for vault/loot, your probably not in a guild that clears fast enough for this to matter. Because on paper that’s already the optimal path live today. Get to a boss where gear matters, add extra raid night for vault/loot.
Plus logistically speaking, it still would never be more optimal to pug because if all 20 members were going to do the raid again anyway……extra raid night . and for the few who couldn’t (because we know wow players are chronically on this game lol.) you would just pug them due to new lockout changes. So really it would be like 3-4 people pug but again if you already weren’t extra nighting for max progress youre not in the target.
1 Like