I joined wow way back during MoP. At that time I did Mythic SoO in a pug group without DBM (hey I was new to wow) I may add because it was easy to form a group for mythic. After MoP and with the release of WoD it was so hard to form a pug group for a mythic raid.
I mean Why does LFG drops from the list once the raid has 20 players? Why can’t LFG stays up like a heroic or normal group would? why is there this stigma that mythic raid is only for guilds? Why can’t pugs do it? I did it with MoP SoO in pug. It used to be pugable from MoP and prior but that all changed from WoD expansion and up.
I just wish that mythic raids are more accessible like they used to in MoP, but I doubt anything will change. Granted there are a lot of positive changes done in WF such as elimination of deserter in dungeons or raids and some weekly quests carry over to next week if you don’t finish that first week.
There were many many people who would agree with you but they are long gone from the game at this point, a large portion of the player base that were abandoned and in response abandoned the game.
Back when the justification for the unified 20 man raids was made, one of the points was over 90% of raids were being done in 10 man and they wanted to see more in the larger format. It funny looking back at that, looking at the exodus of players that would follow, and the inability of people to grasp (including many people inside bliz) the barriers of 20 man raids.
Some of the best fun I had was in 10 heroic raids (todays mythic). Semi casual groups thrown together, usually picking up a pug here and there, 2 days, just talking nonsense and having fun without all the over heads of the larger raid format.
Now the game caters largely to two categories of players. Elites (and elite wannabees) and people who want the 21st century version of stamp collecting through transmog, achievements, pets, etc.
People will say 20 raid format results in better raids, I have no doubt they are correct, but you can create the absolute best product, but if its not the product most people want who cares. An inferior 10 format was more popular than a superior 20 man format. And now you have them scaling the difficulty of mythic for world first race, 300+ attempt bosses, lol.
I don’t think it’s too late to make mythic raids more accessible. I lead my raids and I’m noticing a decline in heroic applicants because players are already geared. This means if there is no other gearing option such as mythic raid they may cancel their membership. But if there is a mythic raid, that would keep them busy for the next 4 to 5 months until the next raid or patch or expansion. Win win for everyone.
I agree with you, there are many things they could do to make mythic raids more accessible. But like everything in the game it is driven by an underlying philosophy on Bliz part and for mythic raids that philosophy does not include accessibility :\
No SoO had 4 difficulties back then: flex, normal, heroic and mythic. And players were lined up to do mythic SoO. That’s how I was able to do it in a pug. But hey agree to disagree.
So ima pick this apart cause you might have rose tinted goggles or just don’t remember things clearly.
Looking threw the old logs this is not even close to true 71% participation in 20 man vs 29% of 10 man.
No recent (past 4 expansions) boss even in mythic difficulty has more pull attempts before kill than older raid bosses from vanilla-cata that still hold the record for days unkilled and pulls required
Yes of course… vanilla raid content is known to be considerably more difficult than modern raid content /s. Also 90% came from bliz themselves but what would they know.
So sad, to be confounded by semantics like this, must be hard navigating the “complexities” of real life hey.
Ok fair enough. Do you agree that Heroic SoO (equivalent to today’s mythic raid ) was easy to form than today’s mythic raids? I think so what about you?
It’s easier to pug 10 than 20 for sure, but with raid ID lockouts and no cross server back then pugging heroic (now mythic) raids wasn’t going to be super successful.
Maybe dragonsoul with the 30% debuff active.
Heroic 25 man Ragnaros in Cata was on par with a hard modern mythic end boss and was an easy 300 pull fight so difficulty ramping had already started.
@ memberyberry you still didn’t answer my question. I’m not talking about how hard the boss is. I’m talking about accessibility of forming the raid. And fyi I did SoO with 20 man back then because it was easy to find players unlike today’s mythic raid.
Siege of Orgrimmar did exist in a state with Mythic. The pre-patch that launched the WoD systems came a bit early, and changed SoO to the new raid structure, including 20-man Mythic where it was previously 25-man Heroic, that guilds raided for I think a couple of months. This was done so that raids and guilds would have time to adjust their rosters.
25H Ragnaros was an anomaly. At the time, there were pugs going on that were doing 6/7 25H Firelands. Rag, Spine, these sorts of guild-killer fights are/were often just a byproduct of weird tuning, just like the instances where it was the 10H fight that was ridiculous.
I did answer your question and I said its not and it shouldn’t be. You still have heroic raiding like before in SoO and it still works the same with even more ease of access. Mythic is its own thing
That analogy doesn’t really hold, and it’s correct for anyone to equate 25H to 20M.
Blizzard were fairly explicit when Mythic was announced at Blizzcon. At that time, both 10H and 25H were acting in a capacity to serve as competitive game modes for organised groups (read: guilds). They were explicitly seeking to consolidate those 2 into a single 20M to avoid having small tuning differences between the 2, particularly for important fights like Lei Shen, or Garrosh Hellscream. They were clear about what they wanted to consolidate, what their starting point was, and what their end-goal was, and as far as a 25H guild was concerned, that meant you should see essentially the same gameplay, difficulty, and dynamics in 20M. Technically, that was supposed to true about 10H as well, but you can’t really magically double your rosters so that entire scene was just deleted.
This also meant they could keep old Heroic/new Mythic separated out while they expanded the “Flex” system. WHere “Flex” previously had only been a lower difficulty mode than “Normal”, now anything other than “Mythic” (aka, the competitive mode) would have the flexible group scaling tech applied. Hence, old Flex became “Normal”, and old 10N and 25N became one “Heroic” mode. They explicitly charted these equivalencies, and with SoO made direct translations with the pre-expansion patch.
Not only did they make all of this clear at Blizzcon itself, they expanded on it further in Dev Watercoolers later.
This is were you and I disagree. The mechanics for heroic SoO was ultra hard, way harder than modern heroic raids. It warrants the stamp of a mythic raid scale. And forming a group for it was easy because we didn’t have LFG to form a raid for it, we had something else that was removed with WoD introduction.