Okay I need to go on a little rant here. You all need to stop thinking that the meta route and skipping the dungeon is the only way to do these dungeons. I am at resilient 15’s and 3317 score. I have some idea of the routes and the percentages. Please… what is with you DPS players? you don’t seem to even recognize that most of you are only pulling probably 60% of the dps you could be pulling, but you are insistent on telling the tank the routes he needs to take? bro. it is getting so annoying. I have done these dungeons over 300 times this season. I have my routes.
It’s just silly. Example: motherlode +16, I explain the route, I say: “straight run through, kill everything, no skips.” we kill all the trash first pull with no issues. we kill the first peacekeeper with no issue. we kill the second peacekeeper with no issue. we kill the trash on the left after first two peacekeeper with no issues. And then, we wipe on the trash pull before first boss, because healer gets cc’ed, and mage is sitting there saying my routes trash and why so many peacekeepers? the peacekeepers are not that difficult to kill and give like 3% for mobs. I timed the +15 with 3 minutes left and I’ve done it on +15 more than once. I know that if we pump DPS and don’t wipe and die, the route will work. then I join a group and the shaman right away is saying “we need skip here” for DFC, I assume he wants to skip the trash before 3rd boss.
bro okay my point:
TLDR: you dps players need to stop focusing on what everybody else is doing and blaming others, especially if it genuinely isn’t even their fault, and focus on your own dps that’s probably only 60% of what you should be doing. you all will be sitting here at 684 ilvl getting out dps’ed by a Brewmaster monk talking bad about my route. like for real? complaining about my route, which I know is good, while you sit there and stand in tear gas and let the healer eat a spreltzer? it just blows me away. makes pushing keys in mythic+ not fun at all because nobody can take any level of accountability and everything is somebody else’s fault. I make mistakes sometimes and I accept that and will take fault, but its so annoying when I did absolutely nothing wrong at all, and it was actually pretty dang clean. and then the healer dies and its my fault because of my route?
also: stop trying to skip the whole dungeon.
you need % and I guarantee all dungeons are timeable at +18 by simply running straight through the dungeon and doing enough damage to beat the timer. you all want to make things so overly complicated and insistent on doing these weird coordinated skips and its just a mess and silly.
THE REASON YOU NEED TO DO SKIPS TO SAVE 10 seconds overall time… IS BECAUSE YOUR DPS SUCKS. stop complaining about routes and trying to skip everything and actually pull 6+ million dps consistently
Yeah it’s funny that this needs to be explained. This has been going on since Legion, but in Legion what I would scream at groups about was prio damage. People would either pad completely or they would attack random mobs instead of the one chunking the group.
Best example of this I can think of recently was that mini boss mob in Dawn of the Infinite, Teerai or whatever, the titan lady who would spam a group wide AOE pulse every few seconds until you killed her. I watched so many groups just sit there and let her live and they would kill every single thing and save her for last. I’m just like you cannot be that stupid.
DPS has a choice, their choice is what dies first. If you can’t even recognize the prio mobs you need to remove yourself from the game mode, plain and simple.
first thing you gotta realize is most players suck at this game. out of the total population that plays this game, only about 15% know what prio damage is and why it’s important. 10% or even lower might be a closer metric. Looking at some shorts with arcane mages obliterating prio mobs and people talking about how said arcane mage is getting “gapped” by the boomkin on the meter instead was…enlightening.
I agree that some of the skips that have become common use at all key levels are ridiculous and unnecessary, often resulting in more lost time than just pulling the mobs that are being skipped in the first place due to people struggling with jumps / timing of pats and such. And that’s assuming someone doesn’t mess up and pull one of the mobs / packs anyway, making that time and effort even more of a waste.
Motherlode right now is as bad as Everbloom was back in the day (granted, that wasn’t M+).
But I mostly feel that way because I’m talking about the average pug experience.
You know what’s NOT the average pug experience?
Pushing +15s.
That’s exactly where people should be expected to know what’s optimal and pull it off without hindering the group. Training Wheels are off here. So this is where I don’t actually mind people wanting to do optimal skips that are hit or miss in lower keys with less experienced players.
Yeah?
That said, the run has already started. The tank is pulling. Hit stuff and move on.
Yea, it slays me that clowns will avoid dungeon and class guides like the plague of undeath, but binge watch MDI and think they know all they need to know. Meanwhile at least 1 of them is pulling tank dps maximum.
I noticed this trend late SL, all through DF (when I wasn’t unsubbed), and when I quit wow (again) in TWW S1.
Y’all ain’t learning, don’t want to learn, and it’s ridiculous.
Don’t even know how to assist target or have interrupt tracker, or know what skull target is for. But hey, y’all got biiiig mouths!
You gotta use the example I gave. The big giant tall Titan woman is pulsing AOE on the entire group, you can see it because she is holding her weapon in the air, yelling, with a channel bar and is the only mob in the pack doing that, it is 1000% visible to everyone that she is pulsing AOE.
To ignore that and pad the adds around her is crazy work, it basically goes against every rule in every video game ever created.
sure, theres a couple skips that are a no brainer or that I like doing. In cinderbrew in the hallway, I paralysis and ring of peace the corner pack and skip that, and before third boss skip I do a skip there too. But some dungeons, I personally just prefer a straight run through, and being that I’m the tank, and we aren’t an actually group coming up with strategies, I feel like at the end of the day, the DPS needs to put some more faith into the tanks that they have some idea of the route and roll with it.
another example is theater of pain… EVERYBODY WANTS TO SKIP THOSE MINI BOSSES. sure, those might even be worth a good minute or 2, but they’re weird and annoying, and I just don’t think they’re really fun and not worth it for me. I like to sometimes even pull that first group on theater of pain and kill it separately before boss. usually though, i’ll skip the first pack and pull the bloodhorn into boss. after that I like to just run through the dungeon normally and kill everything while trying to stay alive and do enough DPS to beat the timer. It’s a perfectly acceptable strategy for anything up to probably +18s or 19s. but people literally will talk poop and complain because we aren’t getting through fast enough, when the real reason is because the DPS can barely do 30% more overall damage than me and I’m tank spec. In fact, on the mini bosses and on Xav, I was top damage on a +16 as a tank. But the dps is saying “why are you pulling this like a melee comp.” bro whatever. there is absolutely NO REASON THAT I SHOULD BE DOING MORE SINGLE TARGET DPS THAN A DPS SPEC ON A +16. AND YET… EVEN WITH ME DOING MORE DPS THAN A DPS PLAYER, I WILL GET BLAMED BECAUSE MY ROUTE ISN’T OPTIMAL.
BRO YOU CAN’T EVEN DO TANK DPS.
I know what i’m doing. I do 2.5 million overall damage as tank. I can pull how I want, or if you want to communicate with me ahead of time thats fine/great. but talking smack on my route halfway through a dungeon when its gg is not cool and frustrating seriously.
People talking smack while being under the tank is wild also. I would tell them straight up to uninstall. Tanks are doing low damage right now too, which is even worse.
At least you aren’t playing with Quelthalas, Rag and Azralon players wearing questing blues in +4 keys.
Whenever I get into a key and the tank almost dies from the first trash pack, I already know they’re wearing blues, that’s how common it has become. I don’t think you could get much lazier with crafting and Delves existing.
Dude had a 541 Blue chest and a 5something blue helm. Literally over 100 ilvls. People think gear doesn’t matter, they’re too used to Classic. What’s worse is they get carried by me through the entire dungeon and we still time it.
The healer role should get a 1,000 gold reward at the end of the key if the tank is lower ilvl than them.
Honestly it shocks me that people enter keys with anything below 623. 623 is what you can buy from Brann and farm from the Hallowfall event. Combined with a 678 weapon from doing 3 T11 delves and potentially 3 heroic raid pieces from doing raid finder for tokens (boring to do but works), reaching 650 is trivial.
I have come up with my own routes for every dungeon this season and have not followed any particular guides or strategies. I skimmed through one guide on Priory of the Sacred Flame early season just to get an idea, and kind of adjusted things to my liking, but otherwise, all my routes are just what I have found to work, from experience. That’s how I like tanking and I’ve gotten to pretty high level keys for pugging as a Brewmaster. I’ve put a lot of time into figuring out what routes both work well for pugs and that I actually enjoy doing. I don’t like spending 30 seconds trying to get my character to jump over a dumb little ledge just so some other trash can get pulled anyway. I’ve put a lot of time into maximizing my DPS, getting my nameplates and UI just how I like etc. It’s frustrating that people still are blaming me when poop goes south. Like I could maybe understand at the beginning of the season when I genuinely was making a lot of mistakes and playing far less than optimally… as was everybody else… but now?
I’ve put quite a lot of time into being a good Brewmaster monk so you know… bruh stop complaining about anything that you don’t like or would do differently.
People are just really inconsiderate and don’t want to think about the fact that there are other players playing the game.
And like I get it, sometimes when I dps… I’m like man I don’t like this tanks route and all his weird skips. but guess what? I rolled dps, its not my place to criticize the dudes route or his pulls. also pulling because you are like picturing what the tank is going to do. you know when you see the tank pull and then he doesn’t quite do what you expect him to do and you’re like what? no pull the rest right? yeah I get you bro. sometimes I feel like that when I play dps. but its just not cool to be pulling and trying to make the tank do what you want to do. you aren’t this one man army that you seem to think you are. like you are only contributing probably 30% of the overall damage in the dungeon. you can not survive these mobs if you have aggro… you aren’t healing anybody?
THIS RIGHT HERE
you as a little arcane mage, are not as important as you seem to think you
Tell that to these Rag/Azralon/Quelthalas tanks who queue up for M+ with freshly dinged 80s. They won’t even have 4 piece.
Then they get into these keys and proceed to not hold threat. You can tell because the party frames flash red if the person has threat. I’ve healed through at least 3 keys this week where DPS were tanking white hits. Thank god for Blessing of Protection.
Season 3 is gonna be funny in Halls. Tanks are gonna be pulling the ranged and casters and proceed to nuke the entire group multiple times because they’ve added so many debuffs to that dungeon now, it isn’t possible to clear them all.
I get scared when I see Brewmaster tanks because a lot of them have no idea about threat, they will start Spinning Crane Kicking (this ability does zero damage) and then it’s over, a DPS is dying to an auto attack or a cast.
God I’m afraid of having to do halls skip again. Invis pot to second boss and if you wipe, it’s over. I hope that strategy doesn’t come back. Also on the four set, yeah it’s wild to me. I usually don’t tier something until it’s at least champion, which isn’t too hard to get. I think most people just don’t put in minimum effort, such as enchants.
Your TLDR is that people need to stop blaming others but your entire rant is blaming the other people in your groups for everything. Holy hell dude, look in the mirror. It’s a group activity, let the group have input on the route. Use MDT and start a live session to talk about it or something and stop being such a tool.
Edit: You know what, let’s do this.
This 15 ML you’re so proud of has you at the very bottom of interrupts on all spells, particularly the ones that are going to cause deaths/wipes. You aren’t using leg sweep or ROP very well, you only tiger yourself, you cast diffuse magic ONE TIME…
As for your route, you are positioning the VERY FIRST PULL incorrectly since if you just tanked them a little farther away, the jockeys wouldn’t run to activate another mech, costing you dps and ccs. This is a straight up failure on your part–why shouldn’t the group start offering advice on the route after this? Then you tank the first boss in the middle of the room rather than on a wall, making the footbombs twice as time-consuming to kick (but hey that’s their problem right?) This again, is a basic lack of knowledge on your part of the dungeon and people who’ve been running 300 keys this season should absolutely know better.
No mech into fluxflame, okay just another sign that you’re relying on the same routes you engineered at a 10, but in 15s people expect you to at least pull the first one in so you can go right into the minefield gather while their cooldowns reset. You don’t do the big tank gather though, because you’d rather make it more difficult for everyone and yolo the minefield which causes 4 deaths.
And the coup de grace: you tank razdunk standing on top of the group rather than aiming the gatling gun away from them like you should. Someone showed you the “safe spot” and you just shut your brain off. Your cook is not good, your gameplay is weak, and your refusal to improve your strategies or take advice makes you the kind of player that most people would rather avoid in the queue because whether you want to accept it or not: your’re every bit to blame as whatever dps/healer you want to point a finger at.
As a tank player having multiple tanks at 3.4k - 3.5k this season:
Sure, some skips are ridiculous for keys around +15, for example the bubbles skip that someone nearly always messes up and bricks the key with. What you’re describing is simply bad routes though. You pull dangerous mobs with low contribution to the mob count because… you don’t want to simply walk around them? Seriously, all it would take is walking around. No cc, weird jumps or anything of the sort, just literally don’t walk face first into them.
You’re relying on DPS being good enough to carry your awful routes and tanking to time the keys, rather than making your routes efficient and safe.
In the case you’re describing, you’re the problem.
Reason number 186 why I gave up mythic plus back in shadow lands. Other people telling me how to play the game when all I wanna do is kick back and enjoy myself. We had just cleared a +22 halls of atonement and had no issues beating the timer and getting the chests and someone still griped about it.
I’ve done a few keys over the last week or so and it seems like the only ppl left are the ppl who are so late to the party that they have no clue what they’re doing. I’m talking about stuff like wiping on the first boss in Workshop. We pulled the boss and the healer just about instantly got one shot by something. He then had the audacity to tell us to do the mechanics after we died to no heals because he was dead.
