Mythic Plus (pug) issues

Community General Discussion
1

So people run keys for

  • fun
  • more io ( title or specific milestones)
  • loot
  • crests
  • valorstones

Problem is, not getting accepted to pugs, and the massive likely hood of failing a run.

For fun, you really just need to get in a key. Easiest solution would be just run your own key. Maybe you prefer the challenge from higher keys which makes running your own key not optimal since they can often deplete.

For loot, there is generally enough ways to get loot (curious how many people consider timing keys as their main loot source) but perhaps there could be an option to guarantee a random drop. Perhaps purchasing a coin from vault to guarantee one extra drop from a time key during the week.
IDK how big of a deal this is specifically, but just coming up with an idea

Crests and valorstones are kinda the same issue. Is it really necessary to have two currencies for upgrading? Often higher io players with queue into 10’s to fill vault + get upgrade currency, or 7’s for similar
Perhaps keys above 10 guarantee upgrade currency prorated by the amount of the dungeon completed + more if you time.
That could give incentive to play the higher keys even if you are needing upgrade currency. It’s harder but you get more for it. This could help open up slots for others to have a better chance of getting picked.
This does play into another issues of, “why shouldn’t I take the highest io for my key”

Now I’m guessing a lot of m+ players like the io gains to some degree. The difficulty of the keys is one factor leading to people being more strict in their selections when forming.
10’s getting both fort and tyrannical and 12’s losing the affix (which I honestly like) but increases by (what was it exactly) 30%
With these non linear jumps in difficulty and less key levels to progress through, there far more pressure on running all keys at a given level to have a better chance at being accepted to a +1 from what you’ve timed.
Additionally, dungeons requiring so many decurses, profession buffs, lists, battle res, dk grip (in necrotic wake), or additional silences from prot pally, or the general perception of Meta classes add an additional layer reducing the chance you get picked for a group.
Lots of people may say “run your own key and be picky with who you choose” and while doing so patiently may help the individual it doesn’t change the issue in the community.

Perhaps reducing the number of dungeon mechanics (I don’t mean a complete purge, just reduction) that become so significantly easier with specific classes. ( Like decurses in grim and stonevault, or dk grips or extra silences for necrotic wake)

Community perception of Meta is also a bit harmful. Perhaps an incentive to take under represented classes could help: % bonus DMG based on difference of representation or paying for on use class buffs like battle res or lust

The difficulty of keys, mostly coming to light from the lower quantity of levels to progress through and the likelihood of failing the key is also an issue. I’ve seen suggestions like, charges for keys before they deplete, or the key being unable to deplete more then 2 from the highest you’ve pushed it to, or allowing a group one chance to repeat the key, perhaps you only get a redo chance if you first complete it ( perhaps that would incentive actually completing the key, and you would still get upgrade currency)

What ideas do you have to help get players to list/run more keys and make getting invited to groups less restrictive?

2

Holy wall of text batman!

To keep it simple run your own key, if you find that your own key depletes a lot then the issue is you / you not being picky enough.

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3

I think the discussion should rather be, “what should be done to discourage or eliminate pugging and get people to treat others like people again?”

5 Likes
4

Something something just go play delves?

5

Or you know, just buff healers so we can carry dps again who are like 100 pound shackles to our feet

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6

Pugging and treating people like people can go hand and hand. It’s people being respectful of each other that needs to improve.

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7

People who quit the game because game changes force them out of pugging aren’t going to be a behavior issue anymore.

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8

This is not a “players are toxic” post.
It’s a what can be improved to increase mythic Plus engagement , acceptance rates, and enjoyment

9

Damage isn’t really the issue (in most cases) so much as the disparity of utility. If people are passing on X class, say a Warlock, it’s typically not because Warlocks can’t provide decent damage. It’s because Warlock utility isn’t perceived to be as good as say, Mages or Shamans.

People would rather take a Mage or Shaman for the potential of decurses even though realistically 90% of PuGs don’t ever have it on their bars.

This can be fixed through several things, like changing Healer dispels so EVERY healer can get EVERY debuff, reducing the necessity of a Shaman in Arakara or Grim Batol and making stuff like Skyfury, Intellect and (full) Bloodlust provided through consumables.

The bigger part of the issue (and much harder to fix) is that there’s simply WAY more DPS than every other role. People call this a lack of Tanks and Healers, but it’s more accurately a surplus of DPS.

I say this is a bigger issue because none of the issue I listed above really applies to Healers or Tanks. People will take non-Prot Paladins or non-Resto Shamans for stuff like Stonevault so long as you look like you’ve got a pulse and then they’ll cherrypick DPS because you have the luxury of doing so. Hell, it won’t even really apply to me, I don’t struggle even as a non-meta class because I’m typically pretty far ahead of the curve in regards to experience/gear, so people are willing to overlook my classes deficits.

A DPS surplus is a lot harder to fix than a tank or healer deficit because the latter can be fixed by bribing Tanks and Healers. The former can only be fixed by telling Ret Paladins and Shadow Priests to learn to Tank and Heal respectively.

10

I love the idea of all healers being able to dispel everything. Can’t think of a genuine reason not to do that.
The comment about taking non meta healers and tanks is anecdotal and not completely true. As there are less healers and tanks you’ll have less competition for getting picked but meta still affects your chance of getting picked

11

Yep, buff healers so they heal and DO NOT do damage would be a great step.

12

WoW Made Easy (WME) is a community where you can sign up for key groups. It makes PUGing a little bit “safer.” I’ve had a good experience in my last two runs I signed up for. There is some accountability so you don’t get people bailing early or raging.

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13

Really it’s only dps having a hard time getting into keys. This is because more than 3/5 players are dps yet we only have 3/5 spots for dps in groups. Increasing the group size to have more dps in a group would help a ton. Even going from a. 5 man group size to a 6 man group size is a 33% increase in dps per group.

Simple but effective.

14

That’s a pretty naive way to look at the issue, but hardly surprising.
People have been treating people terribly for very likely longer than we’ve been able to record history. This despite recognizing them as people.

15

While there are more DPS experience invite issues, it’s not purely a DPS issue.

A large problem for getting invited is the lack of incentive to running your own key, so less keys are posted and a number of other factors leading to people being extremely picky for the keys they do list

I actually enjoy doing damage as a healer. I like the dynamic gameplay that come from being able to heal or DMG in the right moment. The issue is the absolutely disparity is DMG out between healers. If DMG from healer is basically removed then I would like to see more utility to replace those options for more dynamic choices in the gameplay

16

Op is doing 13s. They are always going to be harder to pug, especially this season where meta seems ultra dominant but that’s not to say it can’t happen. But at ops level rn they will have more success using the discord to pug rather than the rdf i feel.

Plus look on the bright side… you don’t play dh lmao. I get stone walled constantly for 11s and pretty often for 10s. Meta perception is real this season :weary:

Nice work getting to where you are though. I’m inspired by the efforts!

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17

I’ve only timed 2 keys with an int weapon, the rest I was using strength cause I didn’t notice xD
Anyways appreciate the recognition even if it’s only 13’s
I’ve never waited more then 5 minutes for a key in the past but now I’m waiting up to an hour before I give up (looking for anything that’s a +1)

1 Like