But it’s impossible for a MMO to come out with new content at a level people won’t get bored.
Repeatable content is the cornerstone of the genre and has been a key aspect of WoW since day 1.
M+ gives people something to do, that many people enjoy. Whereas before we still didn’t have the hypothetical new stream of content AND we didn’t have m+.
People literally complain about DF that we have too much content released too quickly.
Edit : to circle back, the context of the conversation was to remove m+ and go back to leveling focus content. Something that has never existed in any WoW expansion. There is a reason.
When a MMO doesn’t have end game content, which has to be repeatable…it will fail. A real life example is Age of Conan. One of the best leveling experiences in an MMO I have had. But it had no end game content. This was a major reason it failed.
Says who? This sounds like you’re making excuses for a billion-dollar company here, that has over 600 developers working on WoW right now. Maybe this was the case in the past, but I think as players we should be expecting more here.
Repeatable content only keeps people engaged for so long. New content is the bread and butter of themepark MMOs.
I don’t care what we had in the past, I’m making a point that M+ is allowing the developers to be lazy.
You’re cherry-picking here.
I don’t know what they mean by leveling focus, but I would like to see different forms of content at the end game that just isn’t spamming the same dungeons over and over again. PVP gets a pass, because playing against other players provides a new experience each match. M+ is the same crap over and over again.
I agree, and I would like to see more content than just spamming some world quests and the same 8 dungeons over and over again.
Can you answer me this. If M+ is so successful, why aren’t we getting more new dungeons post launch? 1 mega dungeon per expansion is appalling for a team of 600 developers.
Sure, but that still fits into the whole point about League. I’m a relatively competitive type of person and love to learn about the science behind leaderboards and all of that stuff. And the most common type of player is basically an average player who fluctuate up and down a small bit but is consistently a mix of good and bad that they average out at around 49-50% W/L-ratio.
So yah’, they probably suck at making groups but rather than learn to do that they are stuck in that 49-50% range and just want stuff to be automated for them. Just so they can blame things on “but it is the system’s fault” and that sort of a thing.
thank you for putting all of your legitimate concerns together. I’m still going through it, let me know what time the power point presentation is going to take place.
M+ is flawed in general. Raiding’s 4 tier approach is better than M+'s infinitely growing numbers. 14 levels of slowly increasing scaled difficulty just isn’t good design. An additional 10 levels of zero changes outside of scaling only serves to make it worse.
You learn the system after 14/15/16 levels. Everything beyond that is your gear holding you back (Or your being carried).
I never said anything about raid or die. Leveling IS, and always has been, the game. The story must absolutely come first. As far as dungeons and raids go, there should be normal, heroic, and ONE level of Mythic. No pluses. Period. They should be optional end game activities. That’s my opinion anyway. And, is why I haven’t played WoW in quite a while.
Human psychology.
And no I won’t elaborate further specifically because it would be a massive waste to do that for you. As you’ll just scream “fake” non-stop and then run off.
Which is why we are getting new content. The idea of something HAVING to be completely new every single time with something completely original is not a requirement. If it was then no Remasters and Remakes would ever happen, and Roguelites wouldn’t be one of the most popular gaming genres on platforms like Steam.
And one could completely skip out on games that have similar gameplay loops like survival games as well. Since they all boil down to essentially the same type of gameplay loop (and I’m talking about the good ones such as ARK, Minecraft, Conan, etc.; not asset flips or the sort).
“I don’t care about historical evidence that points towards evidence that I disagree with. I disagree with this history therefore I am making a completely subjective argument.”
This isn’t an argument, at least not if you want to be taken seriously.
… no? We have had the same complaints in previous expansions as well. It is only when droughts occur that people start to complain about a lack of things to do.
So go and raid, or do pet battles, or collect things, or make alts, or do literally anything else for that matter. Most folks prefer being able to do more PvE content rather than less and M+ fits into that perfectly due to its seasonal rotations and different elements each week due to the affixes.
Because they don’t have 600 developers working on a single dungeon, but that is for a whole lot more than a single instance. Why aren’t we getting more dungeons? In short, because people tend to absolutely HATE them.
Whenever we get a new dungeon it is scaled to the current content-level we are at during that point in the expansion. Whereas the rest of the dungeons aren’t, because even when scaled up those dungeons at a Normal/Heroic level had to be doable without the expectation that people had tiers or even reasonable ilvls/stats/trinkets/weapons/etc.
But when a new dungeon is released, you both can and should make the expectation that people have those things. However that means alienating the players who typically queue for dungeons as their primary form of content as they feel excluded when they can’t participate in dungeons and unless a dungeon is properly sold as an endgame activity, folks who know how to play the game generally can’t get much from those dungeons.
Ergo the cost effectiveness of making additional dungeons post-launch of an expansion is DRASTICALLY lower than … just adding more old dungeons into the M+ pool. Which in turn increases variety and allows people to experiment with new stuff, old trinkets and item effects, dungeons that weren’t ever considered with M+ in mind can be experimented with and see how they work.
You not liking M+ is completely fine. But arguing in the dishonest fashion you do is very much so deplorable.
You want dungeons to be highly specialized and tailored to each individual specialization, where you are required to have specialized and tailored builds to survive very specific scenarios, that will one-shot you if you do them wrong … and you want that with FIVE people doing it at a time…?
You are confusing correlation and causation. M+ has issues, and Blizz definitely could do better with balance tuning, but M+ is not why people starting to leave in droves.
