I pugged my KSH portals on 2 different characters, so go ahead and keep telling us how it’s Blizzard’s fault that ppl can’t get into groups. I help friends get into runs. All of my runs are pugs. Ppl can’t get into keys because they don’t have a good resume. You have to run keys to get into higher keys. Ppl want Blizzard to force ppl to invite them to their runs. It’s never going to happen.
No thanks. As someone who literally never says anything to anyone in game but ‘ggs,’ then leaves (thus this system wouldn’t directly affect me negatively) I absolutely despise all this weak-spined, hippie ‘everyone has to get along’ culture.
I would rather people cuss me out every day than exist in some fake environment full of people forced to act/do things a certain way, personally.
6 Likes
theres nothing wrong with the current m+ system.
its fine.
3 Likes
A topic I actually want to read, from someone I’m actually interested in hearing from, and I cant read it 
This to me is like taking something insanely complex and complicating it because it’s not simple to understand. The better thing is often fewer rules, not more.
The “disposable hero” phenomenon is not isolated to M+.
Why do people make very long posts here that no one will read.
2 Likes
Or you could just get rid of M+ entirely. The fact we have a leaderboard at all breeds toxicity. Bring back the leveling experience. What we have isn’t an MMO but a race to the finish, only to hop on a loot treadmill in a badly designed eSport.
2 Likes
OP has quite the vendetta against locks/DHs
Which is odd cuz there’s very few locks at the high end, but way more mages/druids/paladins/priests
Man.
You want WoW to die that badly?
I did everyone a favor and copy pasted everything onto ChatGPT-4 to summarize it all in one paragraph and a few pinpoints because, let’s face it, no one is reading all that.
Here it is::
This comprehensive analysis identifies six key issues in the current Mythic Plus system of a popular MMORPG, offering detailed explanations and proposed solutions for each.
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Inconsistent Grouping Experiences: Players struggle with forming and joining consistent groups, often leading to temporary and unreliable team formations despite using community resources. This inconsistency results in unpredictable experiences and little incentive to build long-term relationships.
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Inadequate Skill Measurement: The current IO rating system fails to accurately reflect player skill, focusing only on key completion without considering performance quality or consistency. This leads to a skewed representation of skill and fails to measure a player’s consistent performance.
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Lack of Team Continuity: The system does not encourage forming lasting teams, leading to transient group dynamics and a lack of incentives for consistent team play. This results in a ‘mercenary’ mindset and challenges in forming stable teams.
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High Time Investment vs. Limited Progression: Meaningful IO progression, especially at higher levels, requires a disproportionate time investment with limited rewards, making it unsustainable for most players.
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Behavioral Issues: The absence of a behavior rating system contributes to increased toxicity and conflicts, with no mechanism to hold players accountable for their behavior.
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Role and Class Bias: A distinct preference for certain roles and classes leads to exclusion and limited opportunities for players not fitting these preferences.
Proposed Solutions:
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Addressing Player Behavior, Skill, and Consistency: Implement a post-dungeon behavior rating system and a more nuanced skill measurement system that considers role-specific metrics and longitudinal performance tracking.
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Addressing Grouping and Team Continuity: Introduce a roster system for team formation, develop individual and team rating systems, implement a team lock-in period for consistency, and create an ELO-based solo queue system to balance teams. Additionally, incentivize team formation and continuity through rewards and achievements.
In conclusion, the analysis emphasizes the need for a holistic approach to address these issues, suggesting that resolving one aspect could positively impact others, thereby improving the overall gaming experience.
1 Like
Skill Difference Not Reflected : A player who attempts 20 keys and successfully times only 1 might have a similar IO score to another player who times 5 out of 10 keys. This situation illustrates that quantity can overshadow quality in the current system, not truly reflecting the skill difference between these two players.
Almost like, this is the reward for forming consistent groups or vetting who you group with.
Role-Specific Scoring System
A more nuanced system is needed that factors in various aspects of gameplay, not just key completion. I am giving some very SIMPLE YET BRIEF examples, take it with a grain of salt.
In a game with many variables, it’s asking for Blizzard to do the impossible.
On the contrary, I want it to succeed. Prior to Legion (when M+) was introduced, WoW had roughly 5.5 million active subs. Now, it’s only a little over 2. Get rid of chromie time, making things linear again, with the type of end-game we had before, and the mmo fans will return. The ‘competitive’ crowd can go elsewhere. They’ve ruined the game.
1 Like
This is the crux of the problem with M+, you can’t design a MMO that has diverse classes, specs and roles around competitive 5 man content without players demanding that every spec be viable in this content.
This isn’t something that can fixed unless they delete a ton of specs. I don’t know how on earth any developer can balance 39 specs around a niche activity like M+.
The more the team tries to insist on M+ being a pillar of the end game, the worse the game has gotten.
I know people love M+, but it was a bad system to shoehorn into the game that was designed from the get go to be played in large groups, at least the hard content.
The developers took a lazy way out with making M+ instead of actually creating unique content that would serve players that didn’t want to raid.
I think M+ has driven a ton of people out of the game to mate. I think the people that defend it on these forums are selling carries, that is why they defend it.
Can easily be abused by premades.
This should be epic stuff, not just some pet or silly mount. Give people really amazing stuff if they reach 2k behavior score, and they might just play nice.
I will be crucified because DPS decided to pop all CDs before I even pulled.
This seems nice. I fail to see the downside to it.
Join the nutjobs with the other nutjobs? Scary.
Even though I indicated the downsides to some of your stuff, please know that I enjoyed reading it and do agree that some systems can be put in place.
Just do remember that every game where your rating goes down after a defeat is a pit of toxicity.
Both games I played that have this system (Overwatch and Rocket League) are so littered with ex-humans (I don’t know what else to call them) that I was forced to disable chat on both of them for my own sanity.
Agreed. Although Overwatch 1 was smart about their kudos system. They made it lower if you spend too much time without a kudos. I thought that was very smart.
Very true. I do the same if it means I can save a CD for a big slap.
I don’t agree with the removal, but I’d have alot more fun in a mechanics-ridden dungeon where the team really had to have solid teamwork in terms of CC/interrupts/CDs, than just battling a stopwatch.
WoW hasn’t had a leveling focus since Vanilla.
Blaming people no longer playing any MMOs anywhere in M+ is incredibly short sighted.
Removing M+ and focusing on leveling would have a mass exodus that would nearly shut down the game.
Raid or Die mentality won’t save WoW…which is what we happened before m+.
3 Likes
Almost like a community or something.
Classic exists. Enjoy.
1 Like
You act like M+ solves this problem. M+ is horribly repetitive, a lot of people are just burned out on this system. It wouldn’t be bad if they had a bigger dungeon pool, and added new dungeons than just 1 mega dungeon per expansion.
M+ doesn’t really solve this problem of the developers’ inability to make new content at a decent clip post launch.
I’ve argued with you many times that M+ is allowing the devs to sit back on their butts and not innovate for the WoW’s end game. Delves are good start, but as long as they have a system like M+ which accounts for a giant amount of the played time at level cap, they ain’t going to be motivated to create new content.
The lifeblood of MMOs was always new content, especially themepark MMOs like WoW. Players want to progress through content, not be stuck running it perpetually.
M+ solves the problem. You can log in and do content in addition to pvp. (Raids aren’t that accessible, and if you clear them, you’re done for the week.)
The lifeblood of MMOs was always new content, especially themepark MMOs like WoW. Players want to progress through content, not be stuck running it perpetually.
We have too much content that players don’t do lol.
2 Likes
Call me paranoid, but I can almost see it: 100k gold to carry you to M+XX, another 20k and we put in multiple positive so your rating.
Hmmm. 
1 Like