Mythic+ leaver penalties

Community General Discussion
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If you sign up for a Mythic + dungeon, you should incur a rather severe penalty for abandoning a key early.

You signed up for that key knowing someone was investing their key in that run. You sign up to get access to the gear involved; likewise, you are willingly taking upon yourself the responsibility to finish.

By leaving, you are screwing the owner of the key (and the rest of the group). Likewise, you should also get screwed… and not in the fun way.

For the same reason people receive a leaver penalty for BG’s and random dungeons, Blizzard should impose a penalty on those who do this. As the consequences for leaving a Mythic_ are more severe, the consequences for the offending player should also be more severe.

Some people think they are entitled to abandon a key early if the group is failing. You aren’t. No one in this game is entitled to anyone else’s time; however, by signing up for the key, you are willing engaging with the other players. Moreover, by leaving early, you are essentially wasting the time of others - both the time they invested in the dungeon to that point, and the time it will take to re-level their key.

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I understand where you’re coming from, but the difference is that for M+ you agreed to do the dungeon with those specific individuals and so there isn’t the same necessity for accountability as there is with groups formed randomly through dungeon finder or BGs. Instead, the onus is on the players to vet who they are entering the key with.

Also, what happens when everyone in the key is fine with abandoning it? Do you still incur a penalty, or is there a way to vote for no penalty (which likely could be abused). And what happens if you’re stuck in a hellish key that’s been going on for an hour with no end in sight? Can you abandon if over time?

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You didn’t sign any contract anywhere. You proposed you candidature throught a free system without penalties and agreements. The only thing that bind you is a social contract that nobody care mostly in an mmo if they’re strangers to you.

Blizzard is also responsible for your key not those people. They didn’t choose how the system work. You should be asking Blizzard to change the key system like it needs to.

It’s funny that you say that no one is entitled to someone else time, but then want to force someone to stay in a run he doesn’t want.

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They wasted their own time by failing 18 month old mechanics and dying to hitting Aspix/Adderis when they shouldn’t. Sorry, not sorry. Not here to babysit and sit in 90 minute keys.

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I am usually pretty lenient and stick some things out. Back pulling and whatnot happens. It is “whatever” and recoverable. Failing easy mechanics that haven’t changed for 18 months is not something I will sit through. A group that wipes to Aspix and Adderis is never killing the 3rd boss.

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On the other hand, you signed up a complete stranger. You should know the risk involved. If you want to hold someone’s feet to the fire, I suggest you join a guild that regularly does mythics.

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All of them? You put together a group of losers who don’t know their class or the content and you want to force the healer and tank to stay for hours?

You are the problem.

Raider io should provide a “success rate” for group leaders. It is inexcusable that someone would carelessly put together a group that wastes people’s time. And that’s why the punishment falls on the group leader who failed to exercise due diligence when recruiting for that group.

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??? I am referring to leaving someone else’s key. I don’t blame people for leaving garbage keys where people do BoD levels of DPS.

When I PUG my key I actually take time to weed out the potential problems.

The only person I scan when I sign up for someone else’s key is the group leader. Not my job to police his group and if he wants to invite the 430 IL mage to the +12 and he can’t carry it on his own and we wipe, I either want my share of the carry gold or he is going to 4 man it without me.

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I did lots of keys in Legion. I ended up getting an ilvl addon so I could mouse over party member plates to see what their ilvls were. Too many group leaders were undergeared and bringing in their 2 most undergeared friends, figuring they could get a tank and a healer in the group finder to make the group work.

Not being able to get past the first trash pack is a problem I stopped having by knowing their ilvls.

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My opinion is “not my key, not my problem”. I don’t leave keys very often. I don’t PUG keys very often even (especially on my warlock), but when I am in a +12 workshop on my Shaman or something as Resto and I am competing with dps on Ku-Jo and then they fail either of the only TWO mechanics on the boss I am going to bring it up and if it happens again I am out.

Again, I am not here to babysit. Idiot made the mistake of trying to blame me for not healing when they stacked for the leap and got one shot. Cya

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i pugged a +15 eye of azshara. a few pulls in, one dps is still sitting at the entrance. so i ask if he’s coming, and the group tells me he’s waiting there while we carry. this was just a pug lol, not listed as a carry in any way. so i leave, and 2 of them actually spam to wsp rage at me for a bit

i think i did about 170 FREE +15 carries in legion between resto druid/disc priest. but sometimes people just don’t deserve it. and they’re quick to lash out at you over it

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I recall getting rage whispers after I left a group before it even started after finding there was a group member whose ilvl wasn’t high enough to get into heroic dungeons.

And another where it turned out we didn’t have a healer because the idiot group leader had put the group on auto-accept.

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I think it was like season 2 or something me and a guildy joined a PUG on a monday night since we needed a 10 done for the week (he was prot pally and I was on some dps character idr). One of the dps was a little undergeared (like 10-15 IL below what drops), but it was just a 10 and it is right before reset and the week was super easy.

This dps was super bad. On the fights they were alive they were competing with the tank. We were barely going to miss the timer, but before the last boss my guildy asked “so how much you getting paid for this?” and the group leader made the mistake of saying “idk what you are talking about :)”. He just left right there and we just used one of our garbage KR keys or something.

If you are going to force other people to carry someone: list it as a carry group or split the gold. He said he would have stayed for the last boss if he just admitted it was a gold carry. Trying to play dumb just pissed him off.

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agreed. i still joined a bunch of those in bfa. i’ll even log on another healer to match their gear type and share when possible. i left that eoa because the carry wanted to afk at entrance the entire run. at least try to contribute instead of tricking a stranger to do it all for you

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Like every other time this has been posted, just no.

There is no system that could be devised that would not either be exploited or try to force players to stay in a failing group.

Mythic+ is for premade groups, if you have an issue with “leavers” you need to do a better job vetting your group members.

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Sorry for the long post, I’m trying to address this all in one go:

Yes, everyone knew what they were getting into before they started.

That’s an argument for greater penalties, not fewer or lesser ones.

I think a group voting to abandon is a fine option; if 3 or 4 out of five people think it’s not going to work, then it’s probably no going to work.

When you’re running a dungeon, and your healer can’t heal basic crap, then pulls the room and quits… yes, they deserve a penalty.

Again, you knew what you were getting into. You should be held accountable.

Nope. You signed up for a group where there is a significant penalty for everyone. When you screw the group, no one gets loot, and the key owner gets downgrounded.

There is also the obvious albeit implicit agreement to finish with the group you started; that’s why you can’t switch group members half-way through.

Nope. Those who sign up for a key are aware of how the system works, and are choosing to participate in it. These are the same rules for BGs and random dungeons.

They player willing chose to dedicate their time. They agreed to go on the run. No one made them; they made their own decisions.

It’s inexcusable that one person should be able to screw over the group, true; especially when that person doesn’t do their job, and rage pulls and then leaves.

A success rate for leaders? Raider IO needs a rate for those abandoning keys. Raider IO only shows what you’ve cleared, not the rate at which you’ve screwed people over.

The current system is broken, and is being exploited by players (hell, just read the thread).

If Raider IO (or an in-game equivalent) allowed us to see the rate at which someone was abandoning keys, this might make sense. However, that data is not currently provided; all it tells you is what key they completed, when, and in what role (admittedly, it also provides you is DPS/HPS etc).

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I guarantee that if raider io were to track active key bails (and this simply cannot be difficult to implement), there’d be a whole ton of wailing and tooth gnashing going on about how unfair it is to point out someone’s lack of perseverance, bla bla bla.

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If you seriously think that you’re owed something when someone random join your group you might have personnal problem. Their time is as much valuable as yours. There’s no precedendy or contract that you agreed. Moreover, you can advertise your group as “not going for timer” if you don’t want people that want to time M+ if you feel those people are a problem for you.

If you don’t like it, then add those people to your personnal blacklist or you know do what people recommend, which is to run with people you ran before or join guilds/groups that do M+.

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If you seriously think that you’re entitled to screw over four other people, whom you knowingly partnered with, you might have a personal problem.

Yes, their time is equally valuable. Which is why you should be punished for it.

I think you’re trying to say “precedent”, which yes, actually exists.

If you don’t believe me, leave a random BG or dungeon early.

As for contract, there is that too. There is a reason why you can’t switch out group members during a dungeon; everyone is agreeing to work with everyone else.

This isn’t the issue, is it?

Even in guilds who regularly run M+, those people still run randoms. In fact, most players run with at least a few pugs, even when they have a regular group/partners.

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Some people think they are entitled to force players to remain in a key when the group is failing. You aren’t. No one in this game is entitled to anyone else’s time. By accepting players into your key, you are willingly accepting that if the group is no longer capable of meeting the goals of everyone within the group, it is entirely possible some players may choose not to invest further time into it without prior specific agreement to do so.

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