What if they made it so keystones offer you two choices at the end of the dungeon. To keep the current key, or to upgrade or downgrade depending on your time to a different key. And those options are listed.
So if you get an upgrade to a dead key you could keep the current one.
Or if you want to take the hit to get out of the untimed key you can drop to the new lower one.
BUT IT’S YOUR CHOICE.
This would also make it less toxic for pugs because not timing a key would be less of a punishment.
Cause why are we being punished at all in this game?
You’re not. Not timing a key gives you one that you’re more likely to time. That’s not a punishment.
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So that people can misclick their choice and then whine and complain and bog down the ticket system?
They are not going to give us an option that would let you reroll for the best dungeon each week.
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It is a punishment… It’s a downrank in your progression. It’d be like wiping to a mythic raid boss, and then the boss downranks to heroic for you to kill it again and retry mythic. The added bonus is that not only do you have to rekill the heroic boss, it then jumps you to a random different mythic boss for you to wipe to again, and go back to heroic again…
While I’d agree the word “punish” is maybe a bit too strong… the sentiment is still accurate. Why is our progression not just halted, but negatively effected?
IMO, random keystones and the inability to retry keys are the largest pitfalls of the M+ system.
“Keep current key” would be the only choice people would ever make if they fail, and then there’d be even more complaining about how hard the dungeons are because the self-balancing aspect is removed.
No, it’d be like the next attempt being a little lower on damage to the raid. Obviously though, the two aren’t really comparable as there’s infinite level of M+ and not the same in raid.
I mean, that’s a discussion of increment size. My point is… why is our progression not only halted, why is it negatively effected? That hasn’t really been a thing in other game modes. It wasn’t even a thing in the CM system, which was the pre-cursor to M+.
Hmm I was wondering if they already did something like this for the weekly cache. I have never gone above a 10 but last week I ended up with a 10 keystone in the vault … IDK why but that was pretty rad.
If you’re talking about the vault giving you the same level key if you time it instead of one level lower I totally support that and they could doing something like that already but I have no idea 
In what way is your progression negatively affected? Your progression is definitely not directly equivalent to the key you currently have in your bags, so I hope that’s not the argument you’d aim to make.
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While I would like to see there be a window where if you’re just a little over time you stay the same level, I don’t find the -1 to be all that negative. I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
The lower key is, to me, a good chance to get better and get my group more loots for the next push attempt.
How is it not?
Positive progression: 14 → 15
No progression: 14 → 14
Negative progression: 14 → 13
All that negative… is still negative. Again. I don’t have to re-kill Sludgefist on heroic in order to reattempt it on mythic. I’d rather have the ability to retry and perfect pulls. That’s what we did with CMs. We’d see multiple packs that we thought we could pull together to save time, and then we perfected the pull by retrying the dungeon over and over until we got it down.
Exactly like how we tackle a raid boss… Blizzard was the one that made the comparison between a M+ dungeon and a raid boss…
It is not. The current system is fine. Adds exhilaration of the risk of failure.
What is the challenge, if you are trying to time your last SD15 for your KSM, and you got the key, now you can just simply readily attempt, and kick bad players again and again until you got it? Raid has the variable of the fact that it is 20 different people. Coordinating 20 different people is ALOT harder than simply kicking until you formed your dream team in LFG.
No. Current system isn’t bad.
What should happen, is that they should give us the option of taking the key, getting a -1, and random rerolling it to a different key. Because sometimes, i just don’t want to play the key i was given. my choice is either go for a completion, and letting this key reroll to something else, or just not play this key. Period.
Allow us to randomly reroll the key at a cost of -1 level.
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Stop comparing apples to oranges. They’re two different systems of PVE. That argument doesn’t make sense unless your key got cut in half when you missed.
And if you couldn’t time it, then you go back to what you can time and get more gear from those and then move forward.
No. Because raids aren’t anything like M+ and can’t be compared.
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Without even going to external sources.
Open your Mythic tab on your group finder. This is where the game tracks your progression in Mythic dungeons. Nowhere on this page does it say your current key, only the highest you’ve completed and timed. Your key is not, in any way, a showing of your personal progression.
Depleting your key doesn’t stop you from running at a certain key. It reduces the level of dungeon that you can activate, but it in no way negatively affects your progression.
The random nature of keys is something else you’ve brought up. There’s just no way for the Mythic+ system to work without randomized keys.
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This.
On Challenge modes we would reset the dungeon if some1 so much as flubbed a CC on one mob.
Being able to retry and min max content is the baseline of this games progression path. M+ takes all of this out of the game.
It’s not enjoyable. It means you are only willing to push content with people you know will execute perfectly. It isolates guilds because they will only run high keys with the best people in the guild and exclude people that struggle with certain affixes or mechanics.
I honestly don’t have a problem with the current M+ system with a specific set of 5 people in my guild.
But why can’t I be able to feel like I can invite any 5 people and not have to do a +5 key that I wouldn’t need at all.
This a proposed solution to a problem for people who are pugging or working on keys with inexperienced players.
I’m honestly trying to comprehend why anyone thinks this would be a bad idea outside of just trolling.
In fairness challenge mode didn’t drop loot.
I can see both sides of this argument.
I’m pretty sick of having players who are only after KSM just drop out and ruin your key when things go even remotely sideways. I might be after io score, or still gearing, or just want the weekly complete.
The fact that the EoD is so unrewarding isn’t helping either. Why stay for possibly 1 item < heroic ilvl randomly from the loot table given to only 1 player.
Abandoning keys early was a thing since Legion, but I feel like it is way more egregious now.
Hopefully the valor reward encourages folks to stay, but frankly the drop rate being so low on the gear itself isn’t doing the system any favors. Valor won’t fix that.
Not being able to time a dungeon is not an indicator of gear levels.
Why look at it as a punishment??
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