I’ve already elaborated twice on what I - and people who share my mindset - are looking for. Repeating it a third time isn’t going to make this conversation more productive. I give up.
You’re right; this is no longer the World of Warcraft I knew. I guess it yours now. May you have better luck with it.
People are blaming Blizzard, ESPECIALLY with class design, for a reason. 8.1 Feral is absolutely dog …. They took 3 year old advice from a theory crafter who hasn’t touched feral in active end game content for years.
The “play another spec” is the most idiotic thing you could’ve said to bolster your argument on why we shouldn’t be blaming Blizzard for class design. All that does is play into Blizzard fantasy that “time played” matters in a subscription based model.
Facts are facts, they didn’t touch class balancing in Alpha or Beta despite the well thought out feedback - we were told to wait till 8.1 and guess what… nothing. So take your white knight self and shove it.
Attitude reflects leadership.
Right, but the one that started this thread is. Sorry for any confusion.
This is correct.
Blizzard could have made class balance worse, but it would have taken a hell of an effort.
If you are just going to continue to shift goalposts when you are proven to be wrong you aren’t here for an actual discussion. Your argument was, and I’ll quote in case you’ve forgotten since you clearly have,
Trying to utilize Vol in AD as some impossible feat of success for “immobile DPS” for which I gave you direct evidence that all of your frothing at the mouth hyperbole was false. If your argument now is that they don’t rank in the top leaderboards for the entire world that is an entirely different argument. I’m going to need you to try to stay on topic and not make up a new argument instead of admitting that you are a hyperbolic liar.
If your current argument is that DH, rogue and frost mages bring too much burst (both single target and AoE) along with rogues/mages having absurd utility, then I’ll gladly agree with that. That isn’t your original argument, nor does it have anything to do with the absolutely pointless link you just threw out as if it some how refuted the fact that based on your initial argument (quoted above) that you are absolutely incorrect.
Now, do you like crow seasoned and baked or deep fried like chicken?
I have nightmares about Hyrja +20 on Tyrannical.
ARCING BOLT
Firstly I am not the one who shifted the goalpost. YOU did by attempting to claim ‘so one shaman does +20 AD that means shamans are fine’
That wasn’t the argument. I clearly stated over the past 3 days what the problem was. That immobile specs were sorely represented in the m+10 community and that sore representation pointed to serious class = encounter design flaws.
That you could find a shaman in a +20 AD doesn’t mean shamans are fine. Do you understand that?
It’s really weird when a person fails so hard at reading comprehension that they don’t even understand their own quote (I’m looking at you in case you aren’t following here).
See the quote, then look at your response here. Your quote does not reflect your statement here. I’m not going through 3 days of what I am assuming is more of your incessant, insurmountable hyperbolic garbage to attempt to figure out what your supposed meanings are.
You made a statement and I directly refuted it and now you are making new arguments that didn’t exist in the context of this exchange as though you aren’t shifting goalposts (some serious mental gymnastics on display by you).
You are also now putting words into my mouth that I stated that “shamans are fine.” Feel free to find that quote for me. I never stated that. Not once. I provided direct evidence that your fallacious argument that “immobile DPS” weren’t able to do mobile content was false. You can either act like an adult and accept you are wrong or continue to shift your argument to try and save face while acting like a child and refusing to eat your crow dinner.
I’m pretty sure I know which option you are going to take here.
If your initial argument had actually been,
then this discussion wouldn’t even be occurring. I will wholeheartedly agree that certain specs/classes are underrepresented in M+ content due to their lack of utility, or (potentially) in the case of feral druids their output. It wasn’t your initial argument no matter how much you want to spin this.
This is exactly what I said, which you replied to.
Adding new things shouldn’t be discouraged though. Personally I think this is very simple. If spec combos exist that cannot do an encounter then something in the encounter needs to be changed to make it possible. If that means removing a mechanic or replacing it with something else then harder is certainly better than impossible.
Nothing in that statement claimed that shamans couldn’t do a +20 AD. It clearly states SPEC COMBOS.
So yeah nobody here lacks reading comprehension except you.
Oh is that right? I call BS. Let’s see the character names so I can check your IO on those 350 alts. I literally get insta-declined on anything higher than a 7 and I’m 370 ilvl.
What you are failing to understand is that getting insta-declined on 90% of keys has NOTHING to do with learning and EVERYTHING to do with the system being inherently flawed and heavily skewed towards specific classes (blood DK, rogue, DH, priest, mw monk)
Again, that isn’t the argument being discussed here and that argument is again completely false. There are no spec combos that exist that cannot do the content as it exists in the game. One day you’ll be able to extricate yourself from the middle of hyperoblic land and be able to make a reasoned and constructive argument. You’re demonstrating today that you have no interest in that, nor do you have any interest in staying on topic without completely shifting the goalposts of the argument at hand.
This entire initial argument was around your complete lie of a statement that Vol was effectively impossible for immobile DPS where you asked for evidence to the contrary and you were given direct evidence to the contrary. You then doubled down on some pointless off topic argument about representation in M+ and linked world leaderboards that had zero to do with what was being discussed.
You’ve now jumped to a completely different argument on a completely separate discussion point that wasn’t part of the other line of discussion, and that is again completely false. You aren’t just shifting goalposts at this point you’ve bulldozed the stadium, built new goalposts, and then shifted the new goalposts.
It would be amazing if you were able to actually stay on topic, but you clearly aren’t capable of separating the different discussion points.
I think you are too focused on ignoring people’s valid complaints so you can maintain your MVP status. That’s literally all I see “MVP’s” on these boards do is deflect valid criticism while waving the Blizzard flag.
Love it. Looks like Windwalkers and shamans are in the same boat friend. You feel my pain. I guess the only solution is to roll a new character. I find it ironic that the only people you see supporting M+ in this thread are DK’s, DH’s, and Rogues LOL.
You can just do your key. Stop by the channel if you want to see hundreds of hours of M+ content though. I do alts once a week usually.
You linked a shaman at +20 AD. That’s an absurd statistic considering the discussion. Shall we go over why your stat pull was absurd?
One shaman at +20 AD does not mean the entire shaman class is fine.
Your entire assertion being that I claimed it impossible for the class to be represented is a strawman you haven’t let go of since you showed up in this thread. I clearly stated spec combos which entails some combination of present specs that makes the encounter impossible.
For example your lone shaman could have been carried by the FOTM specs represented in the chart I linked to you. Just that possibility alone ruins your argument. A weakly represented class can and has been carried through content by well represented classes. Case closed on your argument.
The only stat that matters here is spec representation across the board. That’s how we know and historically how we’ve gauged how enjoyable and effective a spec is.
The higher keys become difficult based on dealing with affixes alone. Wrong group comp trying to do a key you’re barely geared for can still take hours.
Don’t need a timer to make something difficult. Look at mythic raiding.
At this point in Legion the same group of people were not doing anything higher than 7s either. The game is about progression and it has to slowly build up until the last patch of the expansion and that’s when the power creep sets in. They’ll be switching focus to the next expansion during this time period so the power creep basically allows everyone below Mythic raiders to progress further than they usually would, extending the life of current content. At the end of Legion I had a group and we were running 17-19s. Now, at the beginning of BfA, we’re doing 8-10s.
Actually, no problems are solved by telling someone to “git gud”, unless of course, it’s the problem of trying to never come across as a jerk, in which that’s a perfect solution.
If you barely scrape a +1 in a low key then the dps in that group don’t know how to play and definitely aren’t ready for higher keys. Posts like this really make me appreciate raider io.
I take it you’ve never stepped foot in a pug? The majority of the player base can’t even hit 10k dps at 370+ ilvl.