So I’ve been thinking over this particular topic for a while now, and I wanted to get some feedback on it and possibly bring it to the attention of the developers. To keep things simple, I’ll suggest methods of how to control the queue system and then list pros and cons that I have discussed with my guilds.
Mythic Queue System - Possible Functions of Control
For Mythic 0, a standard queue system with a basic iLevel restriction is simple enough.
For Mythic+ and those not working in premade groups, the queue could operate off of a key eligibility system, i. e. people possessing mythic keys of a similar tier would be grouped (assuming that their gear at least meets the basic iLevel required for Mythic 0).
Dungeon selection could be pre-selected (as it can be with normal and heroic dungeons) but could also be done through the random selection system with the “Leader Preferred” option. The leader’s key would determine the dungeon.
In the case of a premade group entering the queue with multiple key levels, the lowest key in the premade group would be preferred (if the group enters with the “Leader Preferred” option selected). If the premade group enters without the leader preferred option selected, the dungeon selection would function as normal (by choosing the dungeon of a player who joins the group with “Leader Preferred” selected or defaulting to the lowest key if no players with “Leader Preferred” are found.)
(Based on further suggestions) A vetting system, like the Proving Grounds, could be used to ensure that players are “up to snuff” for being able to do the content. It could even include a weekly proving ground based on the current affixes for each week. Or it could have achievements tied to said proving ground for each affix, ensuring that players are capable of handling one particular affix or another before being allowed to use the system.
Pros: (Mythic Queue System)
Easier to find a group while performing other activities.
Groups with members of similar key levels could be inclined to continue to work together to do other dungeons of similar levels, effectively generating a premade group for more Mythics.
Players already using the LFG system who are having trouble finding a specific role could enter the queue to find it.
The pre-existing LFG system would remain in place, so nothing in the current system would be lost.
Cons: (Mythic Queue System)
Trolls. We all know they’re out there. While LFG groups can somewhat screen for them, a queue system would not be able to do so.
A queue system might draw some players away from the LFG premade groups, possibly slowing that system down to some degree.
People leaving a group because they don’t want / need anything from the pre-selected dungeon (given that they didn’t select a specific dungeon to begin with.)
I’m sure some solutions could be found for the Cons, but I feel the Pros would outweigh the Cons that currently come to mind.
Would love to hear some feedback on this topic, good idea, bad idea, too much work to refine, what have you. But I feel that the system as it stands right now still has more drawbacks than creating a Mythic queue system and think that we’ve seen the queue system go through enough iterations to provide the developers with the data needed to make such a system more viable.
You forgot to add that Blizzard will subsequently have to nurf mythic and M+ content into the ground. As soon as they add an auto queue option players complain that’s the content is too hard and demand nurfs.
Anything with a queue system historically has.
I remember when heroic dungeons were hard, now they’re just level 120 cake walks, normal dungeons are even more of a joke.
LFR is so easy it borders on brain dead and even that is too hard for a large section of the player base.
What do you think is wrong with the current system?
The LFG system as it stands right now promotes a separation of the tiers to such a degree that people are either already running higher tiers of content or are looking only for carries to bring them up to the higher tier. An LFG system would smooth the tiers out a bit so that regardless of the progress of an expansion, there would be more even gameplay across a larger portion of the population, partly due to getting more people into the system through an automated process.
Of course it has its drawbacks. But sorting those out is part of why I suggested it on the forum for feedback.
I personally think not having every instance in wow to be in lfr is a good thing. There needs to be some interaction in the game.
Introduction of a queue system would not preclude usage of the LFG system that requires interaction. In fact, it could bolster it to some degree by allowing groups that can’t find a specific role to find the role needed by forming a premade group, then using the queue system to fill in the missing roles.
The issue with queue systems is you’re lumped with anyone who meets the barest requirements set by the system, normally ilvl, and this means it’s a huge lottery as to skill levels.
This will cause huge amounts of complaining as auto groups expect to finish what they queued for regardless of their ability to do the content.
This is why lfr is currently a joke and why there are many many threads saying nzoth is way too hard when it is actually laughably easy.
Additionally adding a queue system will greatly exacerbate the issues with the current LFG system, namely lack of tanks and healers to a lesser extent. It’s perfectly acceptable for this game to have some content you actively need to do instead of clicking 1 button and having it spoon fed to you.
The current queue system does work based only off of iLevel. That’s why one of my suggestions is to use a system such as a Proving Grounds like we saw introduced in Mists of Pandaria in order to vet players for being capable of doing the content that they’re queuing for.
Tying it to achievements for each affix, even some combinations of affixes, would be an effective method of vetting and promote education for players unfamiliar with the way some affixes work (like slowing or single-targetting DPS during a bursting affix).
As to exacerbation of lack of healers and tanks, I don’t believe it would make the problem worse. It may actually help the issue by automating the process so that a preformed group gathers, lacks a role, and queues for the role to be filled rather than waiting an hour, finding nothing, then simply breaking up as a result.
It most certainly will make it worse. The game is flooded with dps players of a more casual persuasion who do not want to interact with anyone outside of their friends, these are the players who would use a queue system but not the current LFG system. That means more dps and longer queues.
You still haven’t said why you want this, it’s if because you don’t like interacting with people in the LFG system?
For me personally, it has more to do with the ability to work on more than one thing at once. Rooting through the LFG system in search of a group can be tedious. A queue system would allow me to enter the queue and work on something else, like raising a profession or doing world quests. It can also be a balancing act to be doing something while already in a group that is looking for a particular role. I can’t get too involved in something like doing a world quest, questing, or farming an area for ore/herbs/leathers because once the group is formed, it is generally accepted that you need to drop whatever it is you’re doing and head to the dungeon. You could wait for a summon, but if everyone does that, it’d never happen. And it’s kind of rude just to wait for the summon to come.
A queue system would make it easier to be working on other things while waiting for the queue to pop without inconveniencing yourself or the rest of the group.
This is a wild assumption. I’ve always assumed that people buy carries because they can’t be bothered to learn and earning mass amounts of gold is easy.
Youre ignoring how this issue plays out in game right now. Tanks (and to a lesser degree healers) tend to zoom out of the minor leagues the quickest. Since tanking (and to a lesser extent healing) is a skills position that’s hard to carry, the players tend to be more focused. So they learn the dungeons quickly and survival is is the win condition.
So the roles attract more focused players (generally) and they get groups faster due to scarcity. If queuing becomes the option with the worse outcome, they’ll have to continue to bribe players to queue.
Tank scarcity is a way bigger problem in the lower tiers of content than the upper tier.
You can’t do challenging content without having control over who is in the group. Not with any reasonable chance of success anyway. If you don’t believe me, go start your own ~15 M+ group, set an ilevel requirement 10-15 ilevels below what the dungeon drops, and accept the first five players (of appropriate roles) that apply. I don’t like your chances.
I know it can be slow, and often frustrating trying to break into the keys you want. I recently started running keys on my baby Hunter, and couldn’t get into anything. Run your own keys, and build up your IO score. You’ll get there. We all did.
What fundamental issue are you trying to fix? None of these points are solving anything. You’re suggesting a complete overhaul of the mythic system for… minor conveniences at best? Why do I need to perform other activities to sit in a feelsbad queue? Why do I need a system to choose for me?
I don’t understand why autonomy needs to be sacrificed to implement more and more systems.
Then some current tank/healer players will go DPS instead because they see more availability for it. The goal posts shift and we have solved nothing. A month or two from now we are arguing for a 1:1:7 ratio and it snowballs from there until there is no distinction between a dungeon and a raid.
If you want fewer DPS players then you need to force responsibility on those players that cannot be offloaded to tank and/or healer players. From the feedback regarding the explosive M+ affix design it’s easy to see what the DPS player population’s opinion would be to such responsibility, and those orbs can be assisted by the tank and/or healer.
Mindset of 99% of DPS players, both in raid and M+ = “I just want to smash my damage buttons, everything else is someone else’s job”.
The genie is long out of the bottle so anything done at this point will either be meaningless or drive DPS players away that are accustomed to the modern WoW design. If I had my way then players that choose hybrid classes would have to devote at least 50% of their time to playing one of their support roles in a group setting. If you played the DPS role too much then you would simply stop being rewarded while playing that role.
I would like to see some specs become support specs though. Still do some damage but if we had a T/H/S/D/D/D party set up we could make some pretty cool parties.
I disagree. One of the reasons why I mostly tank in m+ is for the responsibility. I dont want to slog through a wipe fest because the tank is bad. So, I play tank to prevent that.
At higher keys if dps is not doing their job it is a wipe. So they definitely have responsibility.
And we also have to consider that if people don’t enjoy responsibility why force them to do it? We play games for enjoyment do we not?