Mythic+ Currency and Vendor Suggestion

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
1

Seeing as Raiders already have access to great gear for doing their content, and PVPers can buy gear with desired stats and upgrade them, this is my suggestion for those of us who are M+ focused and feel that 35 anima as a consolation prize is not rewarding enough.

Introducing the Vanquished Souls currency and matching vendor.

Completing an M+ dungeon on time rewards an equal amount of Vanquished Souls as the key level, or half rounded down if completed over time.
Vanquished Souls can be used to purchase gear from any dungeon you’ve previously completed on time, with the quality and price of those items upgrading as you complete higher keys. For example, completing a +10 Necrotic Wake adds all the loot from that dungeon that’s relevant to your class to the Vanquished Souls vendor at ilvl 203 (the same as what can drop from the dungeon at that key level). This system allows you to save up for items you want if you’re unlucky with the drops you’ve gotten, or even buy off spec pieces if you want to branch out but lack all the items needed to play that off spec.

Items would be priced at the following function: highestKeyLevel * (10+itemCoefficient)

highestKeyLevel is your highest key you’ve completed for that item’s corresponding dungeon.
itemCoefficient is dependent on the item slot and/or stat budgets. 2H weapons would be 10, 1H Weapons/offhands/shields/trinkets would be 5, helms/shoulders/chest/legs/jewelry would be 3, and all other slots would be 0.

2 Likes
2

I hate to break it to you. Raiders don’t have access to great gear for the content. We get 35 anima per boss per week no matter the difficulty. With 3 pieces of loot dropping for a 20m team. I’ve gone 4 weeks without getting the boss to drop an item till this week and it’s the worst healing trinket in the raid.

Everyone is annoyed by the whole 35 anima “pat on the back” loot, but I agree we need something to help improve the lack of loot.

2 Likes
3

Honestly I think they just need to emulate the current PvP gearing system into M+ and Raiding. Allow us to buy gear at a base ilevel from the raid loot table or M+ loot table and then earn currency to upgrade it to tiered ilevels based on content benchmarks. For example:

Buy an ilevel 184 piece of gear and then be able to upgrade it to ilevel 203 once you have cleared a +10 for a specific amount of M+ currency that would roughly take the same time to grind honor to upgrade a piece of pvp gear.

6 Likes
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I agree that loot in general needs to drop more, but I’m failing to see how Raiders don’t have more access.

Normal Ilvl loot: 200-207 based on the boss. This is equivalent to a +7 through +9 on the low end, and a +10 through a +14 on the high end. Your great vault will also award a piece of this ilvl as well in the raid row.

Heroic Ilvl loot: 213-220 based on the boss. M+ is unable to compete at this level. We have to wait for the great vault to get anything close to this ilvl, but you have 10 bosses to try and the great vault row.

Mythic Ilvl loot: 226-233: Again, M+ cannot reach this by playing the content we focus on. We have to wait for the vault to get the low end of this spectrum, while you have 10 bosses worth of tries, with an even higher level reward for the last two bosses.

Personally I don’t think M+ should be able to get you mythic quality gear outside the great vault, as a organizing a 20 man elite roster to kill the hardest bosses in the game is objectively more challenging. But you have to admit that mid range M+ keys being equivalent to Normal gear, and then high M+ keys not being able to reach Heroic is a little jarring no?

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I agree at some point M+ Gear should equate out to heroic level gear, but not necessarily Mythic Raid gear. The reason why I suggest that we don’t have more access is more times than none, I select the M+ item I earned over what it offers for raiding out of the vault. It’s simply easier to run a hard key chested or not, then complete 9 other M+ keys to have a better pick of the litter.

The fact that I am living proof you can go weeks without looting something from a raid boss on any difficulty (Yes I am still progressing) says a lot about how little loot really drops in raid. I’m not even getting conduits which would be better than busting my butt on progression fights only to finally kill the boss for 35 anima, it just feels bad, far worse than completing a difficult keystone for 35 anima.

6

The thing is this really only applies during progression. After that you have raid farming mode which is vastly more lucrative in terms of loot for time spent than anything else you can do in the game. You can farm clear the entire raid in the same time it takes to do 2 M+ dungeons.

The progression cycle has been longer this time because of the difficulty of early gearing but it may not be the case in season 2.

7

In an hour? Our off-night clears of normal are taking 2-2.5 hours. I’d added it up in another thread, but presuming 2 hours to clear the 10 bosses and 30 minutes average for a timed M+ (they all have timers between 30 and 41 minutes), they actually have very similar drops per time spent.

Edit: There’s no way you can clear 10 bosses in 60 minutes. That’s 6 minutes per fight, and many of them natively last longer than that (Denathrius is a good example). And the place isn’t exactly light weight on trash, either.

Each boss in Nathria grants an average of 0.15 items per person (3 out of 20, but it scales with size, 0.15 * NumRaiders), which is 1.5 items per person (average) for 10 bosses. 120 minute (2 hour) clear means 1 item per 80 minutes per person, 0.75 items per person per hour, average.

Timing an M+ is 2 items for 5 people, so 0.4 items, average, per person per timed run. If we assume an average clear time of 30 minutes, that’s 0.8 items per person per hour, average.

Nathria can only really be cleared substantially faster if you vastly out-gear it, but you could easily do the same with M+ you vastly out-gear, pushing 15-20 minute clears instead of 30m.

The core issue is really that end-of-run rewards don’t scale well with difficulty. A +7 drops the same as normal Nathria, and a +15 isn’t even equal to heroic Nathria, despite being arguably quite a bit harder than heroic Nathria (especially early Nathria). My guild is 6/10 in heroic Nathria, but I believe the highest we’ve cleared in M+ is around a 12.

Still, the comment was also about anima, and anima rewards really do feel insultingly low in SL. 35 per boss and 35 per M+ clear are both insanely low, especially given that individual world quests are rewarding 2-4 times that much, and the weekly requires 29 of those 35-anima rewards in equivalent collection. I’m not sure how I ultimately feel about the lower drop rates so far, but they really do need to make the “consolation prize” rewards feel like more than a couple crumbs.

1 Like
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I actually keep feeling myself having to ask this question more often than not.

Why not? I’m not implying that the dungeon drops should go to mythic raid level, I’m saying why isn’t there a system that’s in place for higher performers to get the equivalent gear. As a legitimate question to this, I pose the following -

Conquest drops from M+ dungeons, 100 per dungeon non-scaling.
Conquest drops from raids, 50 per boss.
Conquest drops from PvP activities.

10 heroic bosses killed, you can upgrade to heroic raid level.
10 mythic bosses killed, you can upgrade to mythic raid level.
All dungeons on +7 cleared, you can upgrade to heroic raid level.
All dungeons on +15 cleared, you can upgrade to mythic raid level.

PvP stays the same it’s on the rating system.

The problem isn’t that PvP gear exists, it’s the upgradability that stands along side the weekly vault. It’s the age old questions and problems, if you want to be a PvPers, you should just be able to PvP, if you want to do raids and only raids, you should be able to do raids and only raids, if you want to only do M+, then you should be able to do M+.

I have no problem with raiding, as the cornerstone, gives gear the fastest when completed at the highest level.

9

I agree completely about the anima rewards. It’s insulting that you get so little for dungeon/raids. Blizzard seem determined to force people into terminally boring, non-challenging content for whatever reason.

It’s not like I’d stop playing if I didn’t have to do world quests. I’d just do more dungeons, because I actually like dungeons. They are challenging, and fun. World Quests are neither.

1 Like
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I don’t think this is even arguably FWIW. Most heroic only raiders won’t be clearing +15s until season 2.

2 Likes
11

Fortunately at least for the weekly 1000, you can get 700 of that just from the world boss (250) and the two dungeon quests (175 each, 350 total, and they can be done on M+ now). So that’s something, at least.

Still, WQs were intentionally designed to take 2-3 times as long in SL as in BfA, and they even said they expect we’ll be doing less of them. And yet the WQ event quest is still 20 (3 per day? And that’s just for one toon? Ya no). If you did your 1000 Anima quest just through WQs, it’d require roughly 10 of them, or 8 with the world boss, since they award roughly 100 each. That’s 20-30 of BfA WQs, in equivalent time commitment, and possibly more since travel time is also substantially increased without the Whistle (and that’s ignoring the lack of flying until 9.1, of course).

If the design of SL is that I’m going to be required to do the equivalent of 4+ BfA WQs per day just to handle one character’s every-week chore, even if I’m clearing the raid and running M+ regularly, I doubt I’ll be sticking with SL very long.

12

At least we aren’t really required to do WQ for any reason in SL. But still they are really the only source of anima, so if you want to upgrade your sanctum at any point then you have to more than ever.

Anima is basically the equivalent of War Resources in BFA, but war resources were far easier to get once you’d fully upgraded to get 500 for every emissary.

At the rate we currently earn anima it will take 6-12 months to fully upgrade our covenant sanctum.

It’s 7 weeks into the expansion and so far I’ve managed to collect enough anima to upgrade my mission table to level 3 - and everything else is still level 1. If you’re into the cosmetic rewards from the covenant special building you’re going to need hundreds of thousands of anima to upgrade and power it.

13

Except the 1000 Anima weekly is mandatory if you want to keep up on Renown. Without it, you’re always going to be at least 1 Renown behind the current cap, and that’ll still be relevant for another 2 months (8 weeks, 16 more Renown until cap). After that, of course, it’s only for the Sanctum upgrade, but you need 91 weeks (!!!) of that weekly quest to upgrade everything in your covenant hall.

War resources were also way less useful. Once you reached a certain point, they were basically just fodder for Seals. You need 91k Anima before it stops being relevant.

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And that’s just for upgrades right? Even after that point there’s all the transmogs/mounts etc that cost anima to purchase.

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Ya, that’s true. The 91k is just for the direct covenant hall upgrades. There’s mounts, transmog, upgrading your covenant armor if it’s relevant (almost certainly on alts), etc.

Like, they could increase the anima drops by 5 times and it still probably wouldn’t be too much.

1 Like
16

Sure, once single raid encounters lasts 40 minutes you can say that a raid is as difficult as M+. Raids also cap in numbers, where keys go up indefinitely.

M+ should absolutely allow for scaling all the way up to max ilvl for the current patch at a faster rate than 1 item per week. Blizzard needs to treat it as its own separate content much like PvP is treated separately from raiding. It is wholly unfair and extremely detrimental to players who enjoy M+ but don’t want to mythic raid, to force them to do mythic raids to progress to higher keys.

Blizzard needs to allow both raiders and M+ obtain gear at a more reasonable rate. Currently it is too low but we don’t need a dramatic increase. It’s simple for M+, give currency from the end of runs. This can be used to purchase items equal to the highest vault level a person has completed. If you finished a 14, you can buy 226 items with this currency. It should be capped in a way that players will get 1 random vault item and 1 purchased item per week. That’s 7 weeks to be fully geared from one source, assuming players are running 14 keys at the start of the patch which isn’t happening. Also prevent hoarding currency by not allowing players to earn more if they are at the cap from the week before.

How do you stop raiders from feeling like they’re missing out? They get the same dang currency from their bosses and it’s capped to the same amount as M+. They share a weekly amount and players can earn it however they please. The items purchasable for raiding is based on killing the boss that drops the items at its respective difficulty. If you kill a boss at mythic you can now buy those items with your currency at 226.

This isn’t rocket surgery and raiding isn’t the only endgame content. Blizzard keeps trying to maintain subs by dangling the carrot longer but at a certain point the animal’s chasing it realize they’re never going to catch it and unsub anyways. Except these people quit indefinitely and not just for a month until the next content patch.

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Not all 20 people in that raid did that though. At least 15 of them just turned up, killed the boss and got loot.

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If you’re talking about mythic raiding then you are certainly not raiding mythic. Heroic Sire and mythic raids past the first two freebie bosses cannot have people just ‘show up’ until you vastly outgear the content. The soft enrages and DPS mechanics are too tight for that to happen.

Now heroic is a different story - you can quite easily carry in there up until Sire. Much like people can carry up to 15s and even sell them as early as now in the expansion (I regularly see sell groups).

And responding to poster above you (Muhfugen) if you want to compare / contrast difficulties, also consider that if you wipe on a raid encounter you get nothing, while wiping but completing a key of any level gives you loot. People wipe dozens of times learning heroic and hundreds of times running mythic per boss. Keys have a scaling system where you can learn as you go and gear as you go. M+ also has a wider loot table because it is 8 dungeons with 3+ bosses each.

I fully agree M+ in its current state is not rewarding enough. I support getting 1 mythic quality item per week from 14s (though I’d argue that a 20 should upgrade the vault to a 233, equivalent of Mythic last 2 bosses). Higher level M+ keys (14-16) feels about as hard as heroic on average, maybe a bit easier since you have to corral less people and can be more selective in who you take, and should award heroic ilvl imo, with higher keys awarding heroic sire-level (i.e. 220) loot.

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Pretty sure there are a lot of people who mythic raid without being a raid leader or guild officer. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

20

I misread your initial response where you were referring to the component of ‘running’ the show. Point still stands, regardless, but I appreciate it doesn’t respond to the statement you made as much - except to say that when you’re getting to the 16-20 keys, you can’t really just pug randos - you’re using voice tools and mostly running with the same core group to learn pulls and mechanics like you would in a raid, and in both scenarios personal responsibility is key and messing up will wipe the entire group.