I dislike m+ a lot, getting into groups is a hassle, you have 0 reason to do the dungeon beyond the weekly vault.
I understand that people love m+ and I’m happy for them, is there any way we can decouple m+ from raiding at this point?
14 Likes
Hopefully…
unlikely though.
I want to have the option to just raid.
12 Likes
Another option could be to allow pvp to be an option for the other slots
2 Likes
You absolutely can use PVP gear, just it won’t be as strong.
But nothing is stopping you.
As for bringing that back? The reason it was removed was pvers didn’t like it. (I think it’s fine though.)
You needed like 2.4k to get mythic items.
If you take into account just ilevels, one should be able to gear just from raiding alone theoretically. Its just that for efficiency, especially time, you have to dip into as many segments of the mmo to maximize gear.
It isnt M+'s fault specifically. It is whatever gives you an extra chance to get more gear in as short a time as possible. At one point it was even efficient to dip in to PVP just to raid. If you can blame M+ you might as well blame delves, crafting, pvp, etc.
You can also blame the impatience of guilds/pugs to make a raid as easy as possible and minimize failure rates.
Addendum: If you want to take it to meta extremes you can even blame the Vault and gear itself. The vault encourages you to do different parts of the mmo to improve gear chances. And if you want to distill the raid to its core dont make gear a factor only a skill. Much like pvp its better for balance if one doesnt have to worry about gear at all when doing them.
3 Likes
Yes, you can completely raid without doing Mythic+.
You’re welcome, I have released you from this burden.
You can. Saying otherwise is being dishonest.
22 Likes
It doesn’t seem likely. If they wanted raiding to be able to stand on it’s own, they’d increase drop rates to be at least equal to m+ rather than relying on gimmicks like dinars.
Delves at least give people an option. They’re easily good enough for heroic and casual mythic but the more serious raiders are stuck. You could theoretically raid CE with just delves and raid but you’d need to be very skilled, very lucky and very patient.
3 Likes
You can also farm trinkets, armour for slots you are missing from the raid, crests and valorstones to upgrade your gear, sure, zero reason.
2 Likes
M+ isn’t required to raid. But some amount of gear is in order to get started. Get it whatever way you prefer.
1 Like
Find a guild that doesn’t make you M+ to do raid. Atleast for mine on Mechanics Optional we don’t have M+ requirements but we do have gearing requirements which can be met through Delves (AoTC this week!).
I’d only imagine CE pushing guilds would need it and at that stage you should be doing your all to push out numbers.
8 Likes
Maybe it’s just I never got used to mythic raiding when m+ was a system. The last time I raided mythic was the start of BFA and mythic plus didn’t seem as necessary back then.
I think the catalyst really changed that
Would be lovely if we could decouple both from each other. I don’t think we’ll have a lot of raiders remaining if raid loot isn’t bis for m+ though, unless they fundamentally change raiding.
They aren’t “coupled” to begin with.
You can easily do one without the other.
One just offers a faster method to gear.
How do you think we did it back in the day prior to m+?
Raid logged. That’s how. Now you can raid AND do m+ to gear.
This is literally an anti m+ thread and op doesn’t even try to hide it.
6 Likes
The raids are designed around gearing from m+ and the catalyst
2 Likes
Not quite. Raids drop significantly less loot compared the raidlogging days. For mythic raiders, seasons aren’t long enough to gear up from raids alone with how stingy they are.
5 Likes
This isn’t true. M+ and catalyst just offer faster raid progression since you can gear faster.
Yes. That’s why you combine the methods.
And as far as I am aware, raids drop roughly the same amount. If anything 1 less piece than the og raids per boss.
But one isn’t required for the other. That was my point.
Most do both since it’s much faster gearing.
They changed raid drops to accommodate the catalyst and raids are tuned for higher ilvls
Sure, you can do just one of the two, but if you’re doing the higher tiers of either you’re kind of bound to do both. If all you do is hc raiding or like 3.2k rating then you’ll never have to feel any pressure of doing the other though.
1 Like
The good news is you can skip mythic plus and just do delves. That same gear will get you high enough to do raiding.
1 Like
Brother. 2 seconds of googling would save you from misinformation.
Yea because it’s more efficient to do both.
You are missing the point. I was arguing against “required”. I never said it was efficient.
Matter of fact, it’s way more boring.
You spend 2 hours clearing the raid, then log for a week. I really don’t miss those days.
4 Likes