with the way loot works i can not grind them like i used to in bfa and legion. its so unrewarding doing them for 3-4 hrs to get no loot. plus with the loot changes if your not going to plus 2-3 the key people get toxic and leave or just start typing wars as they know the chances of getting loot will be even lower now. can we please go back to the old system i understand this is so people do the raids and push difficulties on the raids, but why would i do those too when loot is so hard to come by in the raids too like i did 6/10 normal clear this week no loot and total loot dropped in a 2/3/9 prob 9 gear drops that’s it for 6/10 boss kills
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They’re group content and are a lot of fun if you have a set group with the expectation that it’s as much a personal challenge as anything and that any end chest reward is just a temporary bonus that will be replaced by the weekly chest very quickly.
But if you pug into them expecting a Skinner Box, “press button -> get loot” they’re going to be a bad experience.
its gotten to the point where i gotta expect no loot and do it just for the RIO or for the guildies
just like raiding, you gotta do it for other reasons than the loot 
is that good or bad? idk i’m not some mmo specialist.
Yeah, run it with friends. That way, even if it isnt YOU getting loot, someone you care about is getting the loot, so your team gets an overall upgrade.
They’re turning the game from “do content, get loot” to “do content and get loot next week” and it kinda sucks.
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Pugging will always be the worst way to experience content. The community as a whole is not a positive one, so my recommendation will always be find a group of friends/guildies. It’s just a better experience over all.
This game is for raiders by raiders. The devs are raiders that’s what they like, and that’s what they cater too. I’m completely convinced that unless you plan on fully investing yourself into guild coordinated mythic raid groups; this isn’t the game for you! If you don’t raid or don’t care for raiding, then you’ll be at a significant disadvantage in almost everything you do in game and in every conceivable way.
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I’m guessing your team all took the single-target Covenant instead of getting everyone in M+ group to agree on doing an AOE spam to make short work of the trash.
Not to mention the difficulty is way over the top now. I have to put forth 3xs the effort for 1/5 the reward. Its really making the game not very fun. And the prospect that I have to raid for 2x as long for the foreseeable future to even see the gear is also garbage.
I thought M+ was fun though? Who cares about the loot right?
You are wearing 4 mythic+ pieces, though, so saying “no loot” isn’t technically true, is it?
That’s the best thing and intended by blizz.
Good changes
I like M+, but not so much I do runs everyday. I’m doing my best to hit 4 a week for 2 vault unlocks.
I like raiding and doing battlegrounds more, so it’s nice I can get good gear through RBGs and Arenas (if in the mood for 2’s).
I will agree though that people that are pre-disposed to being hot heads are much worse about missing the timer now with the loot changes, that’s true.
I was literally about to post this. I hate that to progress, I either need to become a no lifer and and find a heavy progression guild. Or farm high end mythics nonstop for a chance at gear. I get bored of doing dungeons for ours at a time. It’s not like raid, where you go in learn the fight, do it once or twice a week depending on difficulty. It’s even worse if you PuG cause then you just gotta have you don’t get to the third boss and unable to kill it. I feel like they need to add a questing system, where you can earn currency to just buy gear and upgrades. I’d rather spend 2 hours doing something different for one piece of gear, then spending 45 minutes of doing the same thing over and over for a chance at a piece of gear.
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I do one MPlus a week to get the weekly vault…I 100 percent expect no loot from the actual run and I also expect there is a 50 percent chance people will leave after they dont get a specific drop off the boss they came for.
With the low drop chance people are not motivated to stay for an entire dungeon…
For organized groups the new system is fine, for PuG groups the new changes seem pretty terrible.
If I were to guess MPlus participation will drop over the next couple months.
Loot is pretty bad right now IMO. It will get worst too, cause once you get that 1 piece that’s “meaningful” which will mean you have 1 less slot to fill. This results in a even lower probability of getting another useful loot. I know WF, TF and etc had its issues, but at least you had something in between to fill the void.