So, I do like running mythic + dungeons. I like the challenge. However, I’ve found that when leveling a character I end up with a key higher than I think that character can handle. As a tank, I’m very aware of how I perform and the burden placed on me to get the job done. To me the key system feels off. If I’m not ready to advance into higher keys I end up not using the key that I have and find I’m having to spend time fishing for the dungeon that I want at a level that I’m comfortable at the time.
IMO, the key system itself is flawed and I’m curious on opinions of everyone. I’ll either get a key for a dungeon I don’t want, or one too high since I ran the current one really well.
I think revamping how mythic dungeons worked as far as entrance would solve a lot of this issue of io. A simple fix would be something similar to iLevel and heroics. IE, you can’t sign up for a certain level of mythics until you have played a certain level and done well on time. Removing the keys would allow you to run the dungeons you want without wading through the endless lists we have now and blocking certain levels or dungeon levels based on account wide achievement could help solve some of this fighting.
Any thoughts. It’s late so please excuse typo’s grammar. etc…
The thing with the key system is you can lower your key where ever you want it down to a 2 so I don’t see that as being an issue, as far as not having the skill set/experience to do a 15 I would say drop it down to a 14, try it and if that doesn’t go well go to a 12 or further if needed. Having too high of a key isn’t really an issue in my eyes.
I want people to succeed and progress but I find most people try to leap frog past content and difficulties they aren’t ready for, the thing is someone that knows your class in and out with the same gear could probably do an even higher key than the one you’re struggling with, there really isn’t a system to calculate a players skill and where they should be at.
They would have to make a rating system like raiderIO or something like an Arena rating giving you so many points for each dungeon timed for every levels.
If there was no Keys people wouldnt do most the dungeons though
I didn’t know you could lower a key. I’m just now getting into mythics.
I think the problem is with keys, people are afraid of taking chances and lowering their key by not timing. And I get that. I really, really get that. But I also get the notion of people being gated. If they implementing a system like an arena rating, you could still judge the person trying to get in. But, you wouldn’t have the fear of your key dropping if you don’t time.
I usually jump to the highest key for gearing purposes after a previous tier so I don’t know what keys look like below 10-12s as far as requirements, I wouldn’t think their requirements for entry to be all the strict especially the lower you get. I mean I know there are people on here that have said they struggle to time a 10 which is understandable.
The thing is there are different brackets of players, there are also different brackets of content. Like lfr for instance, if you’ve only ever done lfr you shouldn’t be trying to do heroic, you need to progress through the content how it was set up.
Keys for instance if you weren’t mythic geared from a previous tier, you came in as a fresh 120 in greens from questing it’s probably reasonable to try a 3-5 key then move up from there.
They changed heroic difficulty which was the old normal, normal is somwhere near lfr as difficulty is concerned. The difference between lfr and normal though is you don’t have 75% of the group afking in the corner or auto attacking to make themselves look like they aren’t afk so they get their participation reward.
But it used to be you’d have normal and heroic raid, you’d do dungeons to gear up for those and before that you’d be questing and crafting gear.
With the implementation of mythic and lfr they just spread it out thinner and made more content available for an even lower skill based player.
That’s why I think placing a rating system would work perfectly. You prevent players from running content they’re not ready for. Or at least filter it some. I think the problem is on higher tiered keys and people crying out that their being gated. And I don’t blame people for being picky at that level. I wouldn’t want to lose my key either.
This is where raider io comes into play, although flawed it has it’s uses. I used to use wowprogress and the # of dungeons you’ve completed in time otherwise you weren’t considered.
You did say you just started m+ I would go downloadraider io addon, it’s not going anywhere and I highly doubt blizzard would even make a half way decent system to do the same thing.
I personally hateraider io because it takes scores from all dungeons instead of the one you’re doing, so lets say you 1 chest every dungeon on a 15
You have like a 1950 io score, lets round it up to 2000 for simplicity.
Why should you be judged off of 12 dungeons if you’re only doing 1 of those 12. It would be near impossible but I’m sure it’s doable, I think they need to make a simplistic system that calculates contribution to a run, the amount of damage/healing/damage taken/deaths into a readable # and then gives you an end score, you wouldn’t even have to go super into detail in my opinion but I could be wrong as I’m not a coder. But you could set threshholds for the amount of damage they’ve contributed through the entirety of a run.
Why do people constantly try to restrict what content people can do? If I want to do a key that’s too high for my character, that’s no one’s business but my group’s.
I remember wowprogress. I’m not against raider io. But, I think it would soothe the community if they weren’t judged by a third party. I got out of the raiding scene back in wrath and I had gear score and i did all of that. I think if you took away the fear of having your key wasted. It wouldn’t be quite so volatile as it is now. I think that, in a nut shell, is my main point. I’m not a fan of the key system.
I dislike the randomness of the key system. I wish you could just select your level and dungeon on-demand, like you can do for normal/heroic/mythic. That way, you and your group could practice on whatever level you’re comfortable with! I’m thinking that we would have to unlock the next level by timing the dungeon on the previous level. I’m one of those filthy casuals, though, so don’t worry about this comment so much if you love the RNG key system.
Then you’ve misunderstood me. My biggest point is the key system itself. I know that raider io uses blizzards data. I’m not against it personally. However, a lot of people don’t like how it blocks. So, you place a fair system in that accomplishes the same thing, but eliminates the fear of a wasted key.
Like I said. It’s late and my typing isn’t the best right after work.
As far as the key dropping in level, I see this as a punishment but also as a benefit, if you’re struggling on a 15 like I said before maybe you shouldn’t be trying a 15 until you get better, this is the disconnect with most people. Just because 15+ dungeons are available doesn’t mean you should be doing them, same thing for mythic raid unless you improve your game play and work your way up.
As far as caring about raider io I’m probably one of the least people to, I push every now and then with guildies/friends but if we untime it fine what ever.
Everyone since vanilla has always worked their way up.
The old game was a great example of this, back in naxx in lich king you’d quest to level up and do dungeons to gear for a basic set of armor changing your gear from green to blue, you’d go do a wing or two of raiding but typically you would craft armor as well, you would need to collect frost/fire or nature resist.
I feel like people aren’t getting this concept of progression, they think it means boost to 120 immediately start doing mythic raiding, no you start in lfr then normal then heroic. For keys you start at a 2 then a 5 then a 7 then a 10 then a 12 and so on.
I don’t mind pushing and blowing the time. You live, learn, and hopefully get better. I’ve never been the type to get mad on a wipe. It’s just a game in the end. However, a lot of people don’t want to blow their key and I think that is where the biggest point of contention is. That’s where the biggest “gating” come in.
That’s just a passive skill check if you think about it like I said, if you can’t do a 11-12-13-14-15 key and you keep depleting them until you hit a 10 until you can finally time it then that’s where you should be at until you get more gear/skill/exp.
When you get more gear/skill/exp timing is nothing, it’s a passive outcome. I two chested a 17 last night, we weren’t even trying, the tank just knew where and what he wanted to pull, we had a few deaths but we weren’t really in a rush. Didn’t have comms, didn’t have a plan or anything, just had like minded players that knew mechanics and were just going at a comfortable pace, we didn’t even pull huge groups, I think the biggest pull was when we pulled a big ogre and a pack of 4-5 small adds in freehold.
A more simplistic way to look at is is a play through of dark souls, if you can’t do it on normal or hard then do it on easy and then do normal then hard the next time. I hate doing it this way but sometimes you have to, but I like banging my head on the wall on hard then taking a break and coming back to it, but that game is harsh when it comes to being punishing. You lose your souls/currency, you have to fight every mob back to where you died and sometimes depending on the map it takes awhile to get back there.
Just like dark souls, wow wasn’t meant to be cleared in a day. Every expansion is out for more than a year, if you want to rush that’s fine but you need to back it up with skill/exp to get there, it’s about the journey not the end reward being handed out like the weekly cache does.
yea that’s the thing right. People have it in their mind that you need to do an mdi type pull to finish a dungeon. Where really you just need a decent phase. MDI is built around finish the dungeon in under 15mins where in reality you have 30+ mins to complete the dungeon. Just steady pull is enough to finish the dungeon. And always good to have a route. That’s where experience comes in. Bigger risky pulls are for people who has experience and at most times in comms.