It is time to consider and realize that both the Mythic+ and Raiding communities don’t always overlap.
We need to stop putting mandatory items locked behind one or the other. One example that is prominent right now is the cantrip boots.
If you are going to lock them behind a mythic raid boss, we need to get some sort of alternative for Mythic+. Completing 15s, crests only available from high keys, etc. The same could be said for the reverse. We recently had a trinket that was BIS for most tanks from a Mythic+ achievement. There really isn’t a reason to force your raiders to go farm high end keys if they hate it.
I feel like there has been this ideology from back in early versions of the game trying to entice players to try different game modes. This is GREAT for new player content, but when it comes to full endgame, most of us know what we enjoy at this point.
If you make something like these cantrip boots, that lets be honest are MANDATORY for high end content, only be useable in raid. This would let you have separate loot tables for each mode with unique things like this without causing so many issues between both playerbases.
Is this the end of the world? Of course not. However, it is a recurring annoyance that both playerbases have to deal with constantly.
14 Likes
I don’t have a problem with a BiS item being locked behind a certain game made. That happens all the time and let’s be honest- the difference between the best and second best weapon, trinket, or whatever else isn’t that big. There is always an alternative.
What I do have a problem with is that these boots aren’t a standard BiS item. They are very powerful and are tied into the season’s legendaryish cloak. This means that all content will be balanced around it, and raiders will be at a huge advantage over everyone else.
What they should have done is make the boot proc an enchant that is aquired through the storyline that the player then applies to whatever the best boots they can get happen to be. Either that or add a vendor that sells the boots for crests. Gilded for the mythic version, runed for the heroic versions, etc, etc. The boots could still drop from the boss, but players would have an alternative way to acquire them if they have bad luck or just don’t raid.
7 Likes
Its all about #timeplayed. Thats it.
Sooner you accept blizz is just about that, everything else becomes more clear.
2 Likes
While I don’t really like the cantrip boots at all and believe it should be a passive you unlock for the cloak at the end of the campaign or at a pivotal point in the campaign itself before the obligatory kill the raidboss quest.
I also don’t see the problem with raids having items to entice you to run them if you’re not a raider. There are plenty of times items from m+ have cantrip effects that are BiS for a spec or multiple specs so raiders have to farm that item for their raid, I don’t see why it’s now a problem when the shoe is on the other foot.
I do understand from a PvP pov that’s an entirely separate game mode to PvE so they should be disabled outright in there to facilitate balance in that ecosystem where gearing for PvP is strictly for PvP, but the PvE side where M+ and Raids overlap for optimal gearing is a non issue.
2 Likes
The problem is accessibility and time. M+ just about anyone can get the best rewards from without spending too much time. Just run a weekly +10 which is pretty easy after the first week or two and you can pull up LFG or get a group of 5 together very quickly for. Even if you don’t time it you’ll get the rewards.
Compare that to mythic raid where you need to get 20 competent players together of varying classes on a weekly schedule of upwards of 6-10 hours where you maybe have a chance of making progress. Not to mention all the time lost on trash and reclearing bosses.
It wouldn’t be a problem if dinars are promised from the devs without the season 2 kill the boss restriction but as far as we know they aren’t.
1 Like
Unless you’re pushing world-first key levels (which it doesn’t look like you do anything remotely close to), then you don’t need the cantrip items to do keys.
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100% mythic plus players DO NOT WANT TO RAID.
WE
DO
NOT
WANT
TO
RAID
stop putting mythic plus BiS items in the mythic raid.
I am unsubbing and refusing to play until I can get my full BiS gear FROM MYTHIC PLUS ONLY
6 Likes
bye
can you give me all your gold?
2 Likes
I would like to see Blizzard putting BiS raiding trinket behind all timed 15s keys and the BIS raiding ring behind 2.5k pvp rating and when the mythic raiders come here crying over how absurd and unfair this idea is, I point them out to your answer.
5 Likes
They did that with the 1800 pvp trinkets back in shadowlands. Pfft 2500.
1 Like
That’s because the devs don’t care about M+ at all. They balance/tune/gear around raiding, and if M+ is destroyed because of it, doesn’t bother them in the least. For blizz it’s raid or leave and find another game.
Well, I can believe, in principle, that Blizzard can lose money so stupidly.
using the example of a map in Warcraft 3, called Dota, we have already seen how they can throw away money )
1 Like
agreed… Bliz says they like to foster evergreen elements… raid/m+/delves/pvp(abandoned)… but it still feels like old school raid or die mentality. They’ve been slowly coming around that what worked 20 years ago doesn’t work now but are still afraid to fully commit to separate paths. Bliz let players ultimately choose what they want to do; don’t create friction points by locking loot behind specific play styles. The only thing that is being fostered by loot locking is sales/boosting and that is not a healthy game environment.
1 Like
Wow made its mark during its peak from raiding… the reason why wow is no longer popular is … RAIDING! It’s slow, and it sucks nowadays. 5 months for one dungeon? 8 bosses for 5 months? Speed runs of shiz like m+ are an adhd kids dream and that just isnt the player base. If wow actually had more frequent content most wouldnt even do m+
We are in the era of microtransactions, catering to adhd gameplays, every class can do everything. That is not original wow, and adds to the current state. Focusing on m+ or PVP will lose them money plain and simple.
Sad as it is to say, if blizzard went back to their roots and what the originality of the game possessed everything will be a lot better
i would say opposite… m+ and maybe delves is what keeps people subbed… raids are usually done in first month or two. If there was no other avenues of gameplay you would probably see even more of player base dropoffs. Even with m+ you can see player base get bored and stop playing with participation dropping 75%. As much as I loved Wow of 20 years ago, I don’t play it today like I did back then (realities of adulting).
2 Likes
doesn’t really matter what you say the numbers prove it. Legion → shadowlands with the implementation of m+ being the new thing dropped wow subscribers over half. You can go look at the actual data instead of emotions. plenty of data showing the shift has done more harm than good. along with slowdown on raids
m+ did not appear during the transition from legion to shl, but in legion.
and in legion the number of wow players was large.
the drop in the number of players is not at all due to the implementation of m+
1 Like
where are you getting your sub numbers?? Bliz stopped reporting them… closet we get is from JohnHight GDC talk and they seem to be back to Legion levels with better retention.
Reflecting on 30 Years of Warcraft - Blizzard Reveals Subscriber Trends at GDC - Wowhead News
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I want the boots deleted and the ring as well. I don’t expect that to happen at this point though. I do want the boots and ring more widely available since it’s too late to delete them.
I think it’s important to have the boots and ring available to all end game players so that everyone can get them by doing their preferred content. This includes raids, M+, PvP, and delves.
M+ players can’t always commit to a regular schedule at the same time on the same days every week. They might play as much as a raider, but not on the same days every week. It can be frustrating for those players when things are locked behind something that requires a regular schedule that they cannot commit to.
There are raiders out there who don’t enjoy M+ as well.
I don’t want to see anyone have to do any content other than the content type that they want to do and that they can find the time to do in order to have important items available (cloak, boots, and ring in this case).
2 Likes
Pve is pve. It’s your choice to only do one. Get over it you’re not owed everything just because you pay a subscription.