In BFA Mythic + allowed you to get gear that was = to raid level and many people complained that raids are much harder then having someone do +15 Mythic + (which is true). So they adjusted it for SL’s that now that the gear that drops is lower then heroic gear (minus the weekly chest). So now those who love Mythic + (Not me but I want too) have become “second rate” again. Doing 10 Mythic + 14’s will give you three chances at Mythic level loot from the Great Vault but outside of that, it is just to improve your IO rating and just to say “I did it”.
Now here is my fix to this problem. I believe this will open the door for not just people who like dungeons but also raiders to jump in and strive to progress in Mythic +. It is apparent that people love to feel like they are progressing that is why the IO rating was even created (by the players). This way they had a way to prove they are good and strive to be better. It is also why Method/Limit and other guilds stream world 1st raids and such. So lets put that into Mythic +.
How I would do it.
Season 1. We have 8 dungeons. I would add a 9th “hidden” dungeon that only unlocks when when you accomplish two things. Go through Mythic +15 with zero deaths and in a certain time limit (Changes based off dungeon but a fair number that makes it challenging in all the dungeons). Once you meet both of those objectives, your team has a portal at the end of the dungeon that transports you to the next dungeon (also during this time you are allowed to change specs/talents/ect). Once you go into the portal you are locked in.
Inside the new dungeon the dungeon is amped up. The gear that drops inside here is the SAME ilvl as Mythic raids. In this dungeon the mechanics and abilities are on par with Mythic raids except in this case as soon as 1 person dies you are ported OUT of the dungeon. You can re-enter as many times you want but you have to complete the time objective again in a normal Mythic + Dungeon.
This will make a “NEW” world first objective. World first “Hidden Dungeon”. A new Cutting Edge achievement. Special Gear to walk around with to show character progression and new bragging rights. This would also open up new live stream events. I wouldn’t be surprised that Method and other guilds set up a team specifically for this (more sponsors).
Now remember…this hidden dungeon will take the best of the best mythic + players to be able to accomplish this. BUT I know that everyone else will be upset that they don’t get to see this special content so just do a similar thing for LFR. At the end of the season, this “Hidden” dungeon now becomes a normal dungeon that people can go in (gear ilvl lowered) and experience the zone and see the content.
Season 2. The season 1 Hidden dungeon is now just one of the standard dungeons…Season 2 drops and a new “hidden dungeon” shows up with new gear and new zone and new objectives. Do this for the entire expansion.
Every New raid tier will have a new “Seasonal” Mythic + dungeon. Everyone gets something. Everyone can brag about waht they accomplished…not just I got a +24 mythic dungeon…which gets boring IMO.
blizz will never cater to the 1% . Sorry but this would never happen. M+ is lower ilvl because its repeatable content you are never locked out of loot. why should it receive loot thats on par with mythic when mythic raiding only drops 3 items per 20 people per boss per week?
High M+ is way more challenging then Mythic Raiding on the whole. Some mythic bosses are virtual loot pinatas that award gear higher than any m+ dungeon ever will and some bosses are very challenging… until you kill them. Spend a week or two downing a boss then it goes on farm. You also get the benefit of having 1000x step-by-step guides on how to do the bossfight that is the same.ever.time.
Boss fights never change, same mechanics, same lust timing, same raid CD’s, every time. Sure minor tweaks are made based on comp but the experience is the same. Heck, half of the spells in your spellbook are not even used in a raid environment.
M+ changes, constantly. It’s a ~30 minute activity to succeed with much more creativity and adaptation required. Many more talents and abilities are used and each player in that 5-man group carries much more responsibility in the run.
BuT DuNgEoNs ArE RePeAtAbLe reeeeeee… just limit the drop chances on higher pieces of gear.
There needs to be a middle ground, not one over the other. Give players a once per week chance to get a heroic/mythic level peice of gear from each dungeon depending on the level of key they do. Say +15 on time awards a chance at a heroic ilvl piece of gear once per week and a +20 awards a chance at mythic ilvl piece once per week per dungeon.
This allows players who can’t commit to a mythic raid schedule more access to gear and keeps raiding from being the end-all-be-all (that model is outdated).
It also gives players a reason to run all the dungeons each week which would get a lot more people into m+ and playing the game.
BTW it should be noted the weekly cache is a terrible gearing option.
He didn’t say “High M+”, he said +15, which in BfA at least was nowhere near Mythic Raid difficulty.
And M+ dungeons also don’t change. If you run a +15 Atal with Fortified, Sanguine, Quaking, it will be the same as the last time you ran a +15 Atal with Fortified, Sanguine, Quaking.
I agree that M+ and Raiding should be equally valid progression paths, but there is no reason to use bad arguments to try to tear down raiding. Use better arguments to advocate for M+.
… isn’T that the default? +15 no death? Heck, all those booster ya’ll love so much are 4-manning 15s, at 2-chest speed, with armor stack and no death (unless the boostee die) it’s not really an achievement
Also, if you’re worried about M+ being behind in gear… rest assured, amongst the very limited loot table available in the raid, atleast half of it isn’t properly itemized for your spec and therefor , just like previous tier, any mythic raider ‘BIS’ gear will be mostly from M+.
I’ve done plenty of M+, and it’s just as scripted as every other PvE content. If there were any differences they were because we did something different, but that applies just as well to raids. The result will not be the same if you do something different.
Pretending that M+ at all levels is so much more complex than raiding because “raiding is scripted” is even more obnoxious than PvPers making the same argument, despite everyone knowing what to expect from every comp from the moment they zone in. At least their content isn’t actually scripted.
No. Doing 10 or more +14s guarantees you your choice of 3 mythic itemlevel items. That’s actually quite a bit more robust than the gear out of mythic raids, which is only a chance. And you’re not getting 3 items to pick from at that level in your weekly chest from raids unless you’re also clearing the place on mythic.
M+ end of dungeon rewards are lower itemlevel because they have no lockout. You can run as many of them as you have hours to fill in a day. You never run out of keys, succeed or fail, and there’s no limit on how many you can run in a week, aside from time and drive to do them.
M+ weekly chest is permitted to be on level with the raids because it’s on the same weekly lockout system. The issue they were trying to solve by setting the M+ gear a bit lower and adding raids to the weekly chest is avoiding the quasi requirement that raiders also be doing their weekly 15 to get the chest gear.
Also, if y’all hadn’t campaigned titanforging out of existence, you’d still be able to get mythic itemlevel gear out of that end-of-dungeon chest. Just sayin’.
The biggest problem I see is creating and balancing a dungeon that a miniscule percentage of players would get to experience. That’s a lot of development resources for something that might not have much payoff.
Err…MDI runs 15’s. Those are about speed, not overall difficulty.
Timing keys over 15’s give a higher % of a 3rd item coming from the chest. The people timing keys higher than 15’s will gear faster than those just doing 15’s.
The change in loot really changed nothing. Previous seasons, your weekly chest was what you were after, as the end of dungeon chest was pretty meh in comparison. This season will feel the same, it’ll just be a little bit of a slower slog since the end of dungeon chest is that much lower. However, raiding drops have been absolutely gutted, so they’ll be depending on their weekly vaults as well. 3 drops in a 20 man raid per boss is pretty slow progression.
Running even a single M+ during a week gets you a guaranteed item out of your weekly chest, scaled to the level of the M+ you’re doing. So ya, you can get guaranteed items. You get 2 items for an in-time run, and potentially more if >15 key.
From a tank perspective I’ve found mythic bosses, even in pugs, a lot easier than keys. Your job is always very scripted and typically doesn’t change much from heroic difficulty.
Keys change every week, different routes and pulls based on affixes and your group composition.
