Is it just me or is Mythic 0 extremely overtuned? I know they changed it to where Mythics are like old +10s now, but the jump from Heroics to Mythics is insane. It went from streamrolling everything in Heroics and skipping most boss mechanics, to dying for breathing in the wrong general direction in Mythic 0. I’ve tried twice now to pug a mythic 0 and both times we disbanded halfway through the dungeon because we kept wiping to literally everything. Both trash and bosses. Even while doing mechanics correctly, the unavoidable damage was just mauling everybody. Anyone else been having the same experience?
For the record, my ilvl is 474. Both times, the majority people in my group were in the high 470s so that should be more than enough to transition into Mythic, considering the most you can get out of Heroic is 476 gear.
20 Likes
Based on the scaling information we had from previous seasons, M0s are probably about 100% harder than heroics. So yes, that’s a huge difficulty increase.
Now, whether or not that makes them overturned is debatable.
I could imagine that people who don’t have their tier sets, haven’t paid attention to stat priorities, or are geared in open-world only gear might struggle…but at the same time, people who were reasonably geared from last season (480s) have had a pretty easy time progressing through low and mid-level keys.
6 Likes
I will say I did both M0s and +2s this week. My +2 runs were faster, smoother and felt easier.
M0 is certainly a bit overtuned.
8 Likes
They said they were kind of going for megadungeon difficulty somewhat with M0s but no timer and affix.
1 Like
If I’m required to worry about secondary stats in such a way, then either the game has categorically failed to ensure I only get such gear, or failed to teach those priorities in-game. Since we know for a fact that wow does neither of those 2 things, then I would say there’s something seriously wrong in the state of Verona.
People running m0’s should not have to worry about stat weights or sub-optimal talents or having set bonuses etc. I know I’ve lost pretty much all my set bonuses due to the new s4 gear. I likely won’t get a 4 set for at least a few weeks.
11 Likes
2s are easy to pug because it’s the m+ crowd. 0s were a nightmare for me because it’s not the m+ crowd. I think the 0s are overtuned for its playerbase.
20 Likes
I didn’t even bother with the mega dungeon until it was a M+ because I don’t like to deal with hard things lol. And plus too many bosses, takes too long. I will go back to ignoring that place.
2 Likes
That was the idea. To make it actually take some amount of work.
5 Likes
Between my two characters I did around 10 M0s this week. Had similar gear as you do when I started. Did not have a single one disband, although I did have two separate instances where we wiped multiple times on bosses: on 2nd boss Neltharus (the chains guy), and on 4th boss AV (the crystal dragon).
The difficulty felt reasonable to me. The closest I came to a brick wall was when I was healing that AV, and our DPS struggled to kill all of the crystals in time, but we pulled it together and got a kill after 5 wipes.
I think you’re probably just a bit unlucky, but one other observation here: if you are a hunter, you have a lot of influence on whether the run is successful. You’ve got an interrupt, and you have lots of control abilities like Intimidation, and Scatter Shot/Binding Shot that can prevent mobs from doing deadly abilities. So you can do a whole lot to make sure that trash pulls are safe. Even one DPS that kicks and stops at the right time is a major positive for completing your dungeon.
2 Likes
Okay but Heroic mechanics should hit you for SOMETHING…even 50% of your HP to let you know “hey, this is a mechanic, and you’re supposed to avoid it”.
Heroics are awful at teaching you any of the mechanics. Because they do absolutely nothing.
15 Likes
Probably because Mythic dungeons were re-scaled to be equivalent to last season’s Mythic Keystone level ten or eleven; in other words: working as intended.
I dont know how S4 gonna be but i think the new compressed M+ lvls gonna be a hell in pubs…
2 Likes
It might be slightly overtuned.
I have the same ilvl and am noticing things hitting a lot harder in M0 than I was expecting. Still, we are below the heroic ilvl, so maybe it is ok? I’m not sure where WQ rewards lie and such to level out that curve.
I’m still not super sure how this solves the original problems of only being relevant at launch.
I guess the plan is to force everyone to re-do heroics, m0s, then start the m+ grind? I think they could’ve just gotten away with merging heroic/m0 difficulty and having that reward your first +2 key. Then sure collapse keystone levels if you want as they’ve done.
1 Like
Hmm, I’d be curious which dungeons had that much unavoidable damage at the M0 level? Legit curious.
I had 4 wipes in a row yesterday in M0 Academy because the healer and a dps could not avoid swirls.
I am inclined to think it’s actually people who think they are avoiding mechanics but maybe are forgetting one? Because they’re sinuses to just getting healed through it all.
That won’t last. Blizz caves in at the slightest wimper from the m+ crew! They know where the token sales are generated. Trust me they will make everything super easy and the loot will be flowing for all the m+ players soon due to all the whimpers that it’s to tough. This is the only thing you can bank on blizz being consistent with
2 Likes
I feel M0 being a +10 equivelent is too much. Maybe lower M0 to about what an old +5 would have been. That way there’s a bit more of a curve.
Yeah, this. Going from steamrolling everything and no having to do most mechanics to dying if you miss a mechanic is not a great difficulty curve.
That could definitely be the case, seeing as I’ve only attempted two. Those hunter tips are good to keep in mind tho. Been using my interrupt, but I tend to forget I have more cc I can use
Halls of Infusion both times. Wiping on the trash in between the 1st and second boss, as well as on the 2nd boss. Maybe the other dungeons are better to approach with lower gear
7 Likes
In regards to the jump I agree, and I said as much as soon as they announced it. It’s odd to go from the equivalent of an M0 to a +10 they should have at least dropped a +5 equivalent in there somehow.
5 Likes
This is the problem that old M0s had, and M+ from 2 to 16. There were mechanics, but they weren’t threatening, so no one learned anything about them until they were trying to push towards 20s then they’d be confused why they insta-died.
This time, it teaches the mechanics very, very early and a lot of people simply cannot handle it.
2 Likes
The problem isn’t that it teaches mechanics, it’s that the difficulty curve goes from completely trivial in heroics to getting instantly gibbed in the next step up with no in between. If the goal is to make normals → heroics → M0 a learning ground for M+, the tuning needs to make sense and gradually ramp up. Not just be a brick wall at M0 while the other two difficulties get completely stomped.
8 Likes
Just got done wiping on tree boss in Academy for 20+ mins, before group disbanded. This scaling is asinine.
I go from running 16s last season, to not being able to clear 0s this season.
I am pulling my weight in terms of damage, but as someone who has to pug 99% of their content due to weird (late night, PST) game play hours, and not having a community to run org groups with, I have to also rely on content that random pugs can also tackle (even if I have to carry some of the DPS)… this simply doesn’t seem to be reasonably possible now.
I think a lot of this is as other’s have pointed out, that the floodgates have opened to players who don’t have M+ exp and are finding the jump from heroic to be jarring (rightfully so), who may be coming from low M+
Either way, it’s an L in my opinion.
6 Likes